Arnaud Van Tilburgh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Here is a border for a Buck knive I have add in Illustrator, takes less than 10 seconds.
arnaud
arnaud
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Buck525border.jpg
Which Vector Graphics Program is recommended
- Thread starter ErichM
- Start date
andrewoval
Member
I have to agree with the other guys. Not to say vector drawing is bad but there is a level of creativity that is lost when you do vector drawing.
I used coral draw for a while and found that i just can't do my best work using it. I love coral draw to do the body/layout of the shape i'm designing on for accurate measurement. But doing scroll work and design is best done with a pencil and more cost effective.
Its much easier to put your mental picture on paper using a pencil than a mouse.
If you break it down in price; just to get the same result as paper and pencil you would have to buy.
wacom intuos 4 medium or small: $150-$300
Software: $100-$300
so anywhere between $250-$600
Sketch pad: $5
Pencil pack:$4-5
Ruler: $2
just $10 bucks.
I used coral draw for a while and found that i just can't do my best work using it. I love coral draw to do the body/layout of the shape i'm designing on for accurate measurement. But doing scroll work and design is best done with a pencil and more cost effective.
Its much easier to put your mental picture on paper using a pencil than a mouse.
If you break it down in price; just to get the same result as paper and pencil you would have to buy.
wacom intuos 4 medium or small: $150-$300
Software: $100-$300
so anywhere between $250-$600
Sketch pad: $5
Pencil pack:$4-5
Ruler: $2
just $10 bucks.
Thanks for all of the responses. I see that appears to be a matter of opinion, with both sides having valid arguments.
I may play with Inkscape for a while since it's free. I just hope I don't waste too much time trying to learn one program only to go to another when I can afford it.
In the mean time I'll be spending quality time with a pencil and paper.
I may play with Inkscape for a while since it's free. I just hope I don't waste too much time trying to learn one program only to go to another when I can afford it.
In the mean time I'll be spending quality time with a pencil and paper.
KCSteve
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
A big part of it is simply the time it takes to get good enough with a tablet & software to get a real gain over using a pencil and paper.
Arnaud has put in that time so he has a tremendous advantage.
But then again, those who use just a pencil can work on designs pretty much anywhere, anytime. I understand the phone books get quite 'interesting' during the FEGA show.
Arnaud has put in that time so he has a tremendous advantage.
But then again, those who use just a pencil can work on designs pretty much anywhere, anytime. I understand the phone books get quite 'interesting' during the FEGA show.
Andrew Biggs
Moderator
Hi Erich
I've never used inkscape before so I can't comment on that particular program. But, a lot of these programs are very similar in the way they work. What you end up paying for is all the features and the ease of which you can use them. They all have their own quirky commands and terminology...........but the outcomes are similar.
Basically that means if you spend time on one, then changing to another is not that hard becuase the concepts are the same, or similar.
The hardest part of all of them is getting your head around the way computer program "thinks" because some programs are more intuative than others. After that it's not so bad.
But like anything else we do, the more time and practice you throw at it the better you become using it. If you have never used a computer graphics program before be prepared for a steep learning curve.
As Arnaud has pointed out, they are very useful for some things.
Cheers
Andrew
I've never used inkscape before so I can't comment on that particular program. But, a lot of these programs are very similar in the way they work. What you end up paying for is all the features and the ease of which you can use them. They all have their own quirky commands and terminology...........but the outcomes are similar.
Basically that means if you spend time on one, then changing to another is not that hard becuase the concepts are the same, or similar.
The hardest part of all of them is getting your head around the way computer program "thinks" because some programs are more intuative than others. After that it's not so bad.
But like anything else we do, the more time and practice you throw at it the better you become using it. If you have never used a computer graphics program before be prepared for a steep learning curve.
As Arnaud has pointed out, they are very useful for some things.
Cheers
Andrew
Doc Mark
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Erich, everything everyone above wrote is correct! We all have our certain likes and prejudices. And they are all correct in our eyes. The pencil is still your best friend. However, I too have difficulties getting the backbone spirals flawless. And if these are not correct, all the rest of your design goes down the tubes. I've used the templates from N-graver and they are, as I believe DocMartin states, not exactly correct. They are close enough however. I've also tried both Corel Draw and Adobe Illustrator and I find that Illustrator seems more intuitive during use. This may be because I was already used to Adobe Photoshop and the the layout is similar. These programs can be purchased far less expensively if you or your spouse are involved, in any way, with education. Or, if you have a child who is a student. If these are still out of your price range, there is a specific free spiral drawing program on the internet, however, I can't for the life of me remember what it was called. Do a general search and you might get lucky. There is no "Magic Software Program", I know, I asked the same question on this Forum a couple of years ago!
GertGraveur
Elite Cafe Member
Hi,
I tried inkscape for Mac and it has a few great features for the engraving designs, it has a paint bucket to fill you backgrounds (Not possible in illustrator), and a good feature to draw parallel lines when shading (much easier than illustrator) . Trouble is that on a mac inkscape is very unstable and therefore I stopped using it.
Gert
I tried inkscape for Mac and it has a few great features for the engraving designs, it has a paint bucket to fill you backgrounds (Not possible in illustrator), and a good feature to draw parallel lines when shading (much easier than illustrator) . Trouble is that on a mac inkscape is very unstable and therefore I stopped using it.
Gert
Arnaud Van Tilburgh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I could try to answer all your reply’s, but I will try that in one reply.
I tried Corel the previous century, and sure it is good software. But as Andrew says, it are the shortcuts that helps to design quickly that make the difference. Illustrator has all of that and that makes the difference.
There is a reason why it is the standard software for Vector design.
As I understood Roland is using Photoshop, in my opinion it works for layout on scenes, also Phil Cogan is using that, but not the perfect software for pencil design. And that is what Illustrator is able to do.
When I have some time I will draw a design in Illustrator you will not be able to see if it is done with paper and pencil or on the computer.
And I agree, if money matters, buy a pencil, if you have some dimes buy a Adobe Illustrator version. Other software will work too, but after time you will experience the limits of other cheaper vector software.
And no one has been able to convince me that vector design limits my creative skills. I’m always prepared to show you how I do it. And you only need one our to get started.
As Steve says that I have advantage, I’m always willing to share my skills on vector design and you will be able to start with it in only one our. Yes, I needed more time, because I had to find out it on my own, as it is never shown for engraving purpose.
arnaud
I tried Corel the previous century, and sure it is good software. But as Andrew says, it are the shortcuts that helps to design quickly that make the difference. Illustrator has all of that and that makes the difference.
There is a reason why it is the standard software for Vector design.
As I understood Roland is using Photoshop, in my opinion it works for layout on scenes, also Phil Cogan is using that, but not the perfect software for pencil design. And that is what Illustrator is able to do.
When I have some time I will draw a design in Illustrator you will not be able to see if it is done with paper and pencil or on the computer.
And I agree, if money matters, buy a pencil, if you have some dimes buy a Adobe Illustrator version. Other software will work too, but after time you will experience the limits of other cheaper vector software.
And no one has been able to convince me that vector design limits my creative skills. I’m always prepared to show you how I do it. And you only need one our to get started.
As Steve says that I have advantage, I’m always willing to share my skills on vector design and you will be able to start with it in only one our. Yes, I needed more time, because I had to find out it on my own, as it is never shown for engraving purpose.
arnaud
Willem Parel
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I would like to have the skills in both ways of designing.
I think the are useful next to another, for the pencil I can find the cheaper way's to learn so the barrel is not that high.
For Adobe Illustrator I have my doubts, because its rather expensive to buy and without knowing I ever would understand such a programm its difficult to make a decision.
Would it be an idea Arnaud that you talk to Chris DeCamillis and take part in his education programm to teach lessons in Adobe Illustrator on his website.
I've always loved your designs and are amazed by the speed you show them here and also the changes if necessary.
Willem
I think the are useful next to another, for the pencil I can find the cheaper way's to learn so the barrel is not that high.
For Adobe Illustrator I have my doubts, because its rather expensive to buy and without knowing I ever would understand such a programm its difficult to make a decision.
Would it be an idea Arnaud that you talk to Chris DeCamillis and take part in his education programm to teach lessons in Adobe Illustrator on his website.
I've always loved your designs and are amazed by the speed you show them here and also the changes if necessary.
Willem
Doc Mark
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
William,
Adobe is currently running a 30 day free trial download for Illustrator. There are no gimmicks and it is a fully functional program. You might want to at least give it a try.
Adobe is currently running a 30 day free trial download for Illustrator. There are no gimmicks and it is a fully functional program. You might want to at least give it a try.
Willem Parel
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
You are kidding me..... That's quite an oppertunity, i will try that right away.
Thank you for this tip.
Thank you for this tip.
maplesm
Elite Cafe Member
The XARA program is very powerful and cheaper. ALong with it There is a free program SPX Spiral http://www.xaraxone.com/webxealot/workbook72/workbook_2.htm That generates spirals that you can adjust in several ways and then import into the drawing program
Arnaud Van Tilburgh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Willem, I think I already told about the “free 30 days trialâ€
I also offered a class tryout on Illustrator true the Internet.
And Chris also wrote that he is purchasing Illustrator and that I will teach him after he saw me doing vector design at the speed of light.
Already 6 of my designs are for purchase on Chris engraversstudio/webstore, and I will draw more.
I will do online classes about design using Illustrator. Only need to write a short manual first that shows setup, tools and shortcuts. It has to fit on one A4 page as less is more. :big grin:
arnaud
maplesm
Elite Cafe Member
Arnaud do you use a drawing pad with illistrator?
Arnaud Van Tilburgh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Yes, the Wacom is best. Don't go for a expencive one, this works fine
The Bamboo Pen & Touch NL (CTH-460-NL) is a good choice.
Here is the link: http://www.tablet4u.be/products/nl/bamboo-tabletten-2de-generatie.html?NewLanguage=UK
My Wacom tablet is even more a "toy look-a-like", works great!
I any questions, just ask, arnaud
Willem Parel
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Well I downloaded Illustrator for the 30 days trial, it took me 7.5 hours to download the 4.29 GB programm.
I haven't time yet to play with it but for now it looks difficult enough.....
I give it a try the coming days.
Willem
I haven't time yet to play with it but for now it looks difficult enough.....
I give it a try the coming days.
Willem
I tell my students that becoming truly proficient with vector software (Corel, Illustrator, etc) requires a very serious commitment of time. I can draw and engrave a design 3 times in the time it takes me to draw the same design in Illustrator. It's fast for some things, yes, but it is NO replacement for a pencil and paper. I almost never use Illustrator to draw a design for an engraving job. It's too slow and awkward.
I don't mean to discourage anyone from using software. I'm a software/computer geek to the core and I love it all. But if you're expecting to expedite design layouts for engraving jobs you could very well be disappointed. The good news is most softwares have a 30-day trial which will gives you a decent amount of time to try before you buy. Lynda.com has excellent video tutorials on Corel and Illustrator and I highly recommend them, in addition to Arnaud's course.
I don't mean to discourage anyone from using software. I'm a software/computer geek to the core and I love it all. But if you're expecting to expedite design layouts for engraving jobs you could very well be disappointed. The good news is most softwares have a 30-day trial which will gives you a decent amount of time to try before you buy. Lynda.com has excellent video tutorials on Corel and Illustrator and I highly recommend them, in addition to Arnaud's course.
Arnaud Van Tilburgh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
@ Willem, I understand that it looks difficult, and you will get frustrated when no one will tell and show you how you have to setup the tools to use.
You only need 10% of the software, so don’t concentrate on the other features.
I’m now finding out how much time on needs to learn using Illustrator the way I do.
In my opinion you don’t need 5 ours to be able to understand and use Illustrator.
And I won’t discourage pencil design. By scanning that and opening it in Illustrator you can fine tune the design very quickly till you think it looks better than de pencil design.
Another thing you must know is that when you print a detailed jpg or tiff design on real size for transferring using a laser printer (toner) on “bakery parchment” your lines will be invisible when real tiny, or at least will look blur.
Printing a vector is as crispy as a graver cut.
@Sam, I don’t understand why it takes you so long to make a vector design as you say you worked with this software and you are a software/computer geek.
Perhaps if you are interested, you should show me your slow way and I my … way. :big grin:
arnaud
Arnaud Van Tilburgh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Thank you Chris for having a open mind on new technology. 
Yesterday I had a conversation with a Dutch Igraver friend about the Silver and engraving school “Schoonhoven”. It used to be a renowned school in the Netherlands. There engraving and silverwork are world famous.
He was telling me the teacher on engraving only accepts the use of hand pushing, when a student uses his “Lindsay power tool” the teacher becomes red of excitement as he don’t allow the use of power tools although student use that.
The reason he don’t allow that perhaps is because he can’t as he is an older engraver. But what is happening now, the school is dying. That just because the teacher does not have an open mind for renewal and always remained with his way he learned it.
I think that is a shame.
Similar with photography, some of those Art-photographers who started on film (pellicule in French) who where convinced about their medium and never tried the digital way using PhotoShop instead of the “darkroom” they laughed with digital photography as it where just toys.
So in my opinion it is not right when teachors discourage the use of new technology just because you have learned it another way.
arnaud
Yesterday I had a conversation with a Dutch Igraver friend about the Silver and engraving school “Schoonhoven”. It used to be a renowned school in the Netherlands. There engraving and silverwork are world famous.
He was telling me the teacher on engraving only accepts the use of hand pushing, when a student uses his “Lindsay power tool” the teacher becomes red of excitement as he don’t allow the use of power tools although student use that.
The reason he don’t allow that perhaps is because he can’t as he is an older engraver. But what is happening now, the school is dying. That just because the teacher does not have an open mind for renewal and always remained with his way he learned it.
I think that is a shame.
Similar with photography, some of those Art-photographers who started on film (pellicule in French) who where convinced about their medium and never tried the digital way using PhotoShop instead of the “darkroom” they laughed with digital photography as it where just toys.
So in my opinion it is not right when teachors discourage the use of new technology just because you have learned it another way.
arnaud
Last edited:
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