discussion. new perspective

[Jared Eason]

Mitch. Sounds like you took me just a little to seriously and to heart in a bad way. I understand what your saying completely. I'm not at all trying to say I have a keen eye now and I'm not the judging type. I merely just noticed things I would not have in the past. Like I said I still liked seeing and appreciated the work and efforts put into there engraving. I'm not one of those guys that after getting into something and learning a little am all a sudden an expert. But thank you for your viewpoint . And I don't mean this negatively, I'm glad you consider yourself one of the elite in the field. But please don't imply that others lesser than yourself cannot really appreciate the art.

 

[Jared Eason]

And Mitch. I was just looking at your 3d engraving last night and told my wife that's one of the most beautiful things I had ever seen. . And I really did appreciate the level of skill and knowledge it took to make it. Now according to your post did I not really appreciate it...... lead by example people. I really do think your work is awesome . Thank you again

 

[Andrew Biggs]

This is just a natural process and pretty much applies to any industry.

Keen observation is one of the keys to improving your work. When we start out we think that anyone that any engraving better than ours (which is just about everyone) must be good engraving...........and of course that simply isn't true.

As you progress and learn you start noticing the difference between really good, good, average, bad and absolute shocking. All of it has its place in the scheme of things but as an engraver its important to be able to discern the good from the bad. That way you can start bringing those observations to your own work and make improvements.

The one thing you can do to speed up this process is to buy some decent reference books and really study them. British Gun Engraving by Douglas Tate is about as good as it gets along with a few others from the European side of the world. Rogers book American Engravers of the 21st century is another must have for the library. The thing about these books is that they have been edited unlike the internet where anything goes.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Jared Eason]

Good point about referencing Andrew. That's one way I think I have discerned the engravings I saw at the show. By looking and studying the engravings of the people I saw were respected and most talked about as being the best. Like Mitch, Lee, Sam ,Chris, and others . They are the leaders in the art to date. I personally have looked at there work very closely following every twist and turn. And if I were the judging type I would use there work as the corner stone to what fine engraving should be.

 

[Jared Eason]

Always keep in mind. Anything I say is always only my opinion.

 

[Red Green]

I think you misunderstood Mitch, his intent was to say as you have begun the experience, you see and understand and it will continue as you develop your knowledge and skill. Yes, and remember everyone if I say anything you don't like it's Jared's opinion.

Bob

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Jared, there's nothing wrong with having your own personal engraving hero's and work that you aspire to...........we all have them.

I would also encourage you to look across the water to Europe. There's a richness of artistic history there that is well worth studying.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Jared Eason]

Thanks for that bob. It bust have been the "that NOBODY who has not actually done it at a very high level has a true appreciation of the very best and what it takes to make it so." Part that through me..

 

[Jared Eason]

Thanks Andrew. I am going to look for some of the books you have suggested. Just like to add I'm not trying to make anyone mad. .

And think we kinda strayed from the discussion subject a little. My felt. Sry

 

[Red Green]

Thanks Doc, I got a good laugh with that one, spot on, you got me.

Bob

 

[mitch]

But please don't imply that others lesser than yourself cannot really appreciate the art.

and "that NOBODY who has not actually done it at a very high level has a true appreciation of the very best and what it takes to make it so."

Jared-
I stand by every word. I've BEEN in your shoes and completely understand what you're seeing (i could have written your opening post 30 yrs ago), and more to the point, what you think you're seeing and how much you think you appreciate what went into it. I sincerely hope that someday you'll be in my shoes and can look back and see things from my perspective. I am not in any way belittling or denigrating you, but until you've actually spent over 100 hours on a square inch of metal- with all that implies about the decades acquiring the myriad of physical & mental skills to make that a worthwhile exercise, and how genuinely difficult it is when you're really pushing the limits, too- your appreciation of that level of work will be something less than absolute.

your growth as an engraver will be the artistic & technical equivalent of the old saying, "My parents are so much smarter than they were when I was a teenager. How did that happen?" and if there's anything i can do to facilitate the process, you need only ask. i admire your attitude.

 

[Jared Eason]

Thanks Mitch. I know my views will change a lot with time and experience. And guess I just took you the wrong way sry for that. As an artist I have over my short time on this earth spent many hours doing different arts. Don't know if you have looked at my work . But that's just what I have done recently. And learned it on my own in a short time. Its nowhere near what you master engravers at doing. Thanks again for understanding where I'm coming from.

 

[mitch]

Hi Jared-

me again. i just had an idea of how to turn this discussion into an opportunity to learn something- what's known these days as a "teachable moment". if you're game, here's your homework assignment:

roll out about an 8" x 8" x 1/2" thick layer of oil clay and using the main "angel wing" leaf figure in this picture for a model: http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?13893-work-in-progress... do a bas-relief sculpture of it. (don't worry about the minor elements that fly over the main leaf) we'll see how accurately you can 'translate' the lines & dots of my engraving into an actual 3-dimensional figure. this will be an excellent way to determine what you're seeing now, without the added factors of engraving it in metal.

if you're not comfortable publicly displaying the end result, please just email a photo to me and we'll keep things between the two of us. and btw- i honestly wish i had somebody to teach me this way when i was starting out. it would have saved years of trying to figure things out for myself by looking at pictures.

of course, anybody following this discussion is welcome to give it a go. maybe we'll start a new thread for it...

 

[Sam]

Mitch is absolutely right. I believe hand engraving is much like music. There are many hidden secrets along the way which only become visible to those who take the journey, and the appreciation of the art grows accordingly.

 

[Jared Eason]

I have a couple of orders to fill at this moment. Having a fulltime job, pregnant wife who's due to pop in about 4 weeks leaves me very little time for my passions . But will see what I can do. I'm not a clay sculptor but will do my best. Great idea by the way. I'm always up for learning something new

 

[Jared Eason]

Mitch if you want to start a new thread for this exercise that would be good . When I'm finished with my homework I can post the pic on there if I can figure how to post a pic. And would be easier for other's as well

 

[Red Green]

Jared, there may be some decent modeling clay but I don't think you'll find it in a local store, the stuff I've tried sucks. I've done some sculpting in 'regular' clay, you can buy it at pottery supply stores if you live in a city or mail order it. It's been at least 30 years so things may have changed but at that time clay came in 50 pound boxes, two 25 lbs. plastic bags of ready to work clay for pottery. Low fire clay works well, make sure you get clay that has no grog (fired clay granules mixed in) it will make sculpting impossibly difficult.

To use the clay make your basic shape a little larger than you want it, it will shrink from 10 to 20 percent as it dries. Working in wet clay is a nightmare don't even bother you need to dry the clay out a little until it becomes what is called leather, the clay must be the same consistency throughout so it must dry slow and even. You can work the clay in varying stages of hydration, to dry and to maintain consistent hydration keep and dry the clay in a sealed container, I used a unpowered refrigerator to store and dry my work in, a plastic storage box should work, keep a small container of water in the chamber to maintain hydration levels, don't try to rush it to dry or moisten to quickly, it will dry when you are working on and you can hydrate it while working by spraying with a mist, drying out too fast will usually result in cracking or worse so dry it in your hydration chamber if you want to fire it.

Bob

 

[Jared Eason]

Ha me again Mitch would it bother you if I carved it in wood. Like I said I know not the first thing about clay work.

 

[Jared Eason]

Thanks for the advice Bob . I have some non hardening clay I got for pattern transferring. Its prob to soft and wouldn't hold the leaf rollovers well

 

[SamW]

Jared, if you think you are busy now, just wait until that baby arrives!! If it is not your first then you already know what I mean. My baby just recently turned 48!