Thank-you for taking time to look into the legality of everything. The knives are 100% real Case knives and bought from a reputable knife seller here in the U.S. and I have the box with the flag and everything a Case Knife should always have. Case really has no way of owning the rights to anything I scrimshaw, since I design everything myself and I don't think anything like nudes they would be marketing either,lol. Something like the Lincoln one...well photos of him were taken way before copyright laws and I googled a photo to use of Lincoln on that knife, which anything with Lincoln on it had to get his image from photos somewhere. I did list in my ebay listing it was done entirely by my hand and one-of-a-kind. Funny thing is they ended an auction too that was a rough rider knife and I had in the heading that I included the box Case with that knife. I did that to draw traffic, but made me feel like I was being targeted when even that one was ended and also said because of copyright infringement with zippo.com, which somehow owns Case or is affiliated with them somehow. Yes, I also stated I did all the scrimshaw art and no way anyone could misinterpret that it was factory done. I even listed it in the self-representing artists category on ebay. Well I'll send her the link to this forum when I hear from her and I'll keep my cool and tell her that me and many others would just like to know what the problem is and we will address that issue then.
Scrimshaw: Need advice! Case XX said I could not put my own artwork on their knives??
- Thread starter MrMister
- Start date
Red Green
Elite Cafe Member
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2011
- Messages
- 391
No attorney worth his salt would publicly discuss his clients interests or legal action without reason. They would have none, it would not be in the interest of the client. If they feel the company is being publicly disparaged they may pursue other options, but they will not publicly debate any action they take. I could get no results with the name ' garyharbour ' is that the correct spelling?
Bob
Bob
Gemsetterchris
Elite Cafe Member
Get yourself a website/blog setup (cheap these days)..eBay is not the best place for you to sell decent artwork.
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
redgreen, look under the Ebay category "Case Knives - Scrimshawed" - they come right up. And they are listed as "New"...
The president of a company may not always be aware of what his representatives are doing.
I have seen it happen on public forums that little disputes like this are simple misunderstandings easily clarified.
And believe it or not, sometimes, apologies are issued! (once, both parties even apologized to each other!)
B.
The president of a company may not always be aware of what his representatives are doing.
I have seen it happen on public forums that little disputes like this are simple misunderstandings easily clarified.
And believe it or not, sometimes, apologies are issued! (once, both parties even apologized to each other!)
B.
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Marcus Hunt
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
evilBay are a law unto themselves and personally I detest them and their attitudes and rarely use them anymore if I can help it. I'm sure they have a bunch of 'jobsworths' sitting there thinking of the next eBay policy change just to justify their job!!! In the UK we cannot purchase a knife from ANYWHERE via eBay. They treat the whole of Britain like a bunch of criminals.
I cannot sell a hobo nickel cross border in the "coins" category any more despite my having 100% feedback. eBay think I'm out to rip off US customers. It's Catch 22 with them, I need to sell more in order to get a higher status and sell in the coin category but I can't sell more because they've tried to close the market to overseas carvers. Upshot is I can't be bothered any more so haven't carved a coin in a long time now.
Some companies are very odd about their products. I recently engraved a rose gold Rolex Daytona. It came into the country complete and had the movement and crystal removed here. When I'd finished engraving it the customer wanted it reassembled but no authorised Rolex dealer would touch it because by custom engraving it they no longer considered it to be a Rolex and for them to handle it it would have to be in factory condition. This is why Kindler & Thorpe offer their own service and guarantee to purchasers of their high end engraved watches.
Personally, I'd steer clear of litigation if I were you; it'll cost you a fortune for what sort of return on a Case knife? Virtually zero I'll bet! My suggestion is make a website and if you want to continue with Case put your engraved knives there. Then engrave a Spyderco or other make and include your URL in your listing. IMHO though, I'd just find another brand to customise.
I cannot sell a hobo nickel cross border in the "coins" category any more despite my having 100% feedback. eBay think I'm out to rip off US customers. It's Catch 22 with them, I need to sell more in order to get a higher status and sell in the coin category but I can't sell more because they've tried to close the market to overseas carvers. Upshot is I can't be bothered any more so haven't carved a coin in a long time now.
Some companies are very odd about their products. I recently engraved a rose gold Rolex Daytona. It came into the country complete and had the movement and crystal removed here. When I'd finished engraving it the customer wanted it reassembled but no authorised Rolex dealer would touch it because by custom engraving it they no longer considered it to be a Rolex and for them to handle it it would have to be in factory condition. This is why Kindler & Thorpe offer their own service and guarantee to purchasers of their high end engraved watches.
Personally, I'd steer clear of litigation if I were you; it'll cost you a fortune for what sort of return on a Case knife? Virtually zero I'll bet! My suggestion is make a website and if you want to continue with Case put your engraved knives there. Then engrave a Spyderco or other make and include your URL in your listing. IMHO though, I'd just find another brand to customise.
Haraga.com
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
BINGO! Finally someone said it.
Good-morning all. First off, thanks for all the helpful advice, I really appreciate it. It's 9am here and haven't heard yet from that lawyer. You are right, I'm sure being a lawyer the last thing she would do is discuss anything here openly and even though it would be nice to have her in the discussion, I think it would be highly unlikely. Yes garyharbour is the correct spelling on the ebay username that sells Case knives scrimshawed just like myself. It's the U.S. ebay it's on, in case you tried searching a different country as it might not show up there. A blog or website is a great idea. Ebay can be very frustrating and they charge fees upon fees too. Brian, I'm glad you could find those others on ebay and you are right. The president or someone over her may not be aware of what is going on. If someone could locate any email address for the president, I would greatly appreciate it. I found out his name, the president of zippo is Greg Booth. For those just joining, zippo.com contacted me and somehow they own or are over Case XX knives. Anyway I also found out George Duke is the owner and chairman, so any of their contact info I could then ask them directly about scrimshaw on their knives. I don't have those exact sales spiels, as they totally delete the ebay sale pages for those items, but I've sold many others and basically just change the pricing, photos, or type of knife in the listing description. Sounds like you have had some really bad luck with ebay too, Marcus. So I don't blame you for moving away from them. I would love to do that and if I can get a blog/website and get traffic to it then I would leave there in a heartbeat. You are also right, if the lawyer is insistant I will probably just quit scrimming on Case XX knives and go to another brand. Even if I was right and went to court and won, it would not be worth the hassle and court costs. If the lawyer holds her ground, it just makes me very wary of any brand of knife now and doing scrim on it and what they company could try to say or do. Hopefully this topic will help out anyone else in the future too if they decide to scrimshaw and sell on Case brand knives.
Did you ever see the video UNITED BREAKS GUITARS on YouTube? If you haven't, it's a video a guy made whose guitar was damaged by United Airlines. He spent months tying to get them to pay for damage and they pretty much told him NO. So he created this every entertaining viral video which rakes United Airlines over the coals. Needless to say once it hit YouTube they were more than anxious to cooperate with him.
Now I AM NOT SAYING that this is what you should do. I have not seen your auctions and there are two sides to every story.
Now I AM NOT SAYING that this is what you should do. I have not seen your auctions and there are two sides to every story.
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I've probably engraved few dozen Case knives over the years... Never sold one directly on Ebay myself, but I've seen one or two that I did the work on pass through Ebay. Usually "New" in the box. Never had a letter from the company. Probably been 40 years since I cut the first one. If it were truly important to them, you would think that they would have made it known way back when.
May all turn out to be nothing more than an unenforceable "policy" someone in the company with too much time on their hands came up with - and then handed to a lawyer with an equal amount of spare time?
Brian
May all turn out to be nothing more than an unenforceable "policy" someone in the company with too much time on their hands came up with - and then handed to a lawyer with an equal amount of spare time?
Brian
Hi again. Hey Sam, I've never seen that video so I will have to go check it out and see what it is about. Sounds like another bad situation with a larger company. Well they do say the squeeky wheel gets the oil, so I'm trying to squeek.lol You can actually see some of my auctions where they ended sold on there. Now if there is a problem, you can remove this from here so not to offend anyone, but I sell mainly nudes on there and so just search "nude scrimshaw knife" and click on sold and you will see a lot I have sold there and there is a few Case knives listed and I used the same exact template for ones removed. Please, if you can look at them and see any problems I would greatly appreciate it. Brian, I too don't see what the big deal is because people have scrimmed knives for years. I've only been doing it about six months, but things like this really get me down when I feel I'm doing everything right and I know about playgarism and copyrights when it deals with art, being a lifetime artist. I agree too that it sounds like someone with too much time on their hands when they could be better pursuing legitimate bootlegs and fakes of their items. It's just upsetting to be accussed of something and found guilty even before I can defend or prove my innocence.
I looked at this auction title: Nude Erotic Woman Engraved Scrimshaw Knife Drawing Pinup w Box Case Engraving XX
If I were to venture a guess, it's "w Box Case Engraving" that Case might not like. Even though you are clear in your description, "Case Engraving" kind of implies that Case did the work. Like "Colt Engraving" implies that the engraving was done by Colt. Do you see what I mean? If I sold a gun that I or someone else engraved and put "Colt Engraving" in the title, that would be very misleading.
When you talk to the lawyer as if that's the problem.
If I were to venture a guess, it's "w Box Case Engraving" that Case might not like. Even though you are clear in your description, "Case Engraving" kind of implies that Case did the work. Like "Colt Engraving" implies that the engraving was done by Colt. Do you see what I mean? If I sold a gun that I or someone else engraved and put "Colt Engraving" in the title, that would be very misleading.
When you talk to the lawyer as if that's the problem.
Thank-you, Sam, and I will mention that. I did that worded that way mainly to draw some traffic, but any I sell from now on that are not Case, I won't put things like that in the title, even though it was not worded to be a Case XX knife. If you see any problems with the actual Case XX knife listings, please let me know also. Thank-you.
Case does not care that you “re-manufactured†their existing product…they care that the end product you offer may be perceived as their product offering…a concern that is their right and justified…they made the knife…you made the art.
Make it clear that the knife in question while “new in the boxâ€, is NOT a factory offering.
Re-word your descriptions… Here may be your out?… simply the addition of the word “I†and “with†in your description.
New --In the box---with
A scrimshaw Scene that I have just finished….
….reword to your liking but get the point across that it is YOUR work, not CASE.
j.c.
Make it clear that the knife in question while “new in the boxâ€, is NOT a factory offering.
Re-word your descriptions… Here may be your out?… simply the addition of the word “I†and “with†in your description.
New --In the box---with
A scrimshaw Scene that I have just finished….
….reword to your liking but get the point across that it is YOUR work, not CASE.
j.c.
For all who want to see, here I found where the Lincoln knife ended before where it did not sell. They totally removed the most recent listing, but I just relisted it exactly as this. Please let me know any problems with copyright infringement you might see. Thank-you. Here is the link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Abraham-Lin...t_Drawings&hash=item3f23ca655b#ht_1023wt_1170
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Abraham-Lin...t_Drawings&hash=item3f23ca655b#ht_1023wt_1170
As a side note from a frequent ebay shopper, I loathe deceptive keyword stuffed auction titles. Where's the engraving? Scrimshaw yes, but engraving? No. This may not have anything to do with your recent troubles. Just giving you some feedback. Take it with a big grain of salt. Other shoppers might not care.
Hi. Not to be mean or anything, but I use keywords that will draw customers to my pages. I even have another art website I do that with the tags you add to the web search. I know engraving is technically not what it is in your opinion, but also here is the google definition of engraving, it's the number 2 definition, so technically I'm not wrong either: "The process or art of cutting or carving a design on a hard surface, esp. so as to make a print." The reason I do it is your typical buyer of knives may type in "engraving" thinking that's what is is called and just not have any other knowledge. All the words are to get maximum exposure and in a place like ebay with lots of competition, it's a must to do that.
Red Green
Elite Cafe Member
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2011
- Messages
- 391
Reading your spiel it looks like you've been singled out for some other reason. As it's been said you won't win even if you win. I'd get back in touch with the Attorney and offer to no longer work on Case knives. Tell her you'll even post this in all your auctions so everyone will know why you don't "I no longer accept commissions or work on Case knives, I've have had too many problems with them.", she may not like it but 'oh well'.
Bob
Bob
Thank-you, Bob. So far I still haven't heard from her. Ebay said it could be up to seven days so knowing lawyers it might be the last hour of the seventh day. lol Unless I can get in touch with someone over her head, or she realizes she is wrong, which honestly I doubt she will, then you are right and it's not worth any legal trouble over scrimming on one particular knife brand. What's not fair is letting others sell theirs doing the same exact thing and punishing me. Even punishing me by taking off a Rough Rider knife that had nothing at all to do with Case XX. I mean as far as I know they don't own Rough Rider knife brands too...do they??
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