Scrimshaw: Need advice! Case XX said I could not put my own artwork on their knives??

[MrMister]

Hello. I have been scrimshawing for maybe half a year now and been doing pretty good with it. What I'm mostly doing now is scrimshaw on knives. Well here is my dilema and I am kinda at a loss for words. I sell many on ebay and have did some Case XX amber trapper knives. What I do is sand the bone down smooth then do my scrimshaw. It's totally my own design and not copied and I'm the copyright holder. Anyway, I had three Case XX knives removed today and ebay told me it was copyright infringement and if I relisted them I could be banned. Well the person that reported them is this lawyer from Zippo.com, which, from research, is either the same company as Case XX knives or it's a part of their company. Anyway, I was wanting some help with this, because I feel I was doing nothing wrong. I mean I'm not mass producing, just doing custom pieces on each one and no two are alike. Has anyone else had this strange problem?? I mean seriously, it's about like custom jobs on Chevy, Ford or other automobiles and I don't see those being copyright infringement if they are the artist's own works. I'm just dumfounded over all this and would like some help please, maybe even if I had the president of Case XX's email address I could even write him directly, because lawyers can sometimes be very hard to deal with. I have wrote her, but waiting to hear back but I have a feeling it will be as difficult as finding a hen with teeth.lol Thank-you for your input and please help, because if Case XX could do this, then any brand of knife schrimshanders use they could try this on. Even something like buffalo nickels considering this thought could fall under this.

 

[Dale Hatfield]

Mr Mister
I feel like their is more to the story. I looked and Ebay has a bunch of scrimshawed case knifes. By artist and by resellers/collectors.
So what gives?

 

[MrMister]

I have no clue. Believe me, I did not copy any of their knives. Two were nudes and one was of Abraham Lincoln and totally all my design. Nothing at all based on what Case XX sells and they are one-of-a-kind. I could understand if I made the same design one after another. One of my knives was not even Case, it was a Rough Rider and I put "includes box Case" in description and it was one of the two nudes.

 

[Red Green]

" if Case XX could do this," As far as I can tell they already have, I don't think they have a case on copyright unless you misrepresent the knife, your problem is with Ebay, you should get clarification from them. Zippo may feel if you modify the knife it is no longer a Case knife and cannot be sold as one. Kind of foolish to make your product unwanted by artists who add value to a mundane product. Perhaps you should make your own knifes or find a knife maker who wants to coop and stop making sales for Case.

Bob

 

[Eugene Carkoski]

Have your lawyer talk to their lawyer, when the two lawyers get rich and they will leave you alone. All kidding aside it probably has to do with the modifications of there product the knife, find a different brand or a knife manufacture that will build them for you. I wish you the best

 

[MrMister]

Thank-you, and if I can't get it resolved, it's not worth the risk of going to court, cause even if I won it would be crazy fees for lawyers. Rough Riders are great for scrimshanding, but I started doing more Case cause there are more collectors. Any advice on white bone knife handles in the30-40 dollar range I could do for scrimshaw and have a good collecting name like Case behind it(Cause I'm not super rich and try to get affordable knives)? It's a first for me, cause technically a company like Ford or Chevy could do this same thing for someone doing a custom paintjob on a vehicle of their brand and reselling. Just concerned me though, because many many different brands that scrimshanders use and I would have never dreamed of something like this happening. It's not like something bootlegged when it's original art.

 

[MrMister]

Thank-you, Red Green. I know, copyright infringement is rediculous and I told that to Ebay and they said I had to wait until I heard from them(zippo.com). I even said in my listing "one-of-a-kind" and people wanting me to do even a second one of those I've sold I have refused, because I hate making copies. Yes, it is foolish of them, because my knives were going into collectors and I was purchasing their product. Just this week I ordered four more Case knives and now I may just return those. Never had this happen with any company at all.

 

[Marrinan]

If you leave the word Case out of your ads they have nothing to say. You bought the knife and you can do whatever you like with it as long as you don't use their name. If you engrave a Zippo the warranty is void. The life time guarantee is worthless. Don't use their name and let them go fly a kite.

 

[MrMister]

Here is a picture of the Abraham Lincoln Scrimshaw. I don't want to post the nudes here, cause others may not want to see those, but this is one they removed saying copyright infringement.

 

[MrMister]

Yes, I think if I do post anymore I will take Case out of the name. I listed it as Case XX and I noticed another person selling lots of Case scrimshawed knives of their just uses Case. I may contact him if things don't end up well with their lawyer and me.

 

[bronc]

Nice work on the knife!

Stewart

 

[MrMister]

Thank-you, Stewart. I love doing scrimshaw, but just a really big downer having something like this happen, especially when it's my own artwork design.

 

[Brian Marshall]

Simple solution?

Send the president of the Case (Zippo) company and this lawyer of theirs directions to this thread.

Invite them both to explain publicly what it is that is "violated" by doing artwork on an object that that you purchased and what their position is.

Personally, I think that a court would throw this out.

There have probably been a hundred thousand Zippos scratched and sold by engravers since they first came to market.

Same with Case knives... The fact that they have not made an objection of any kind that any of us are aware of kinda puts them in a bad way. (and we are talking decades here)

The Ebay lawyers will just hide...


Brian

 

[Brian Marshall]

Might take it further and invite Buck, Spyderco, and a dozen other manufacturers to contribute their positions on having their products engraved and resold as well...

Add a few gun manufacturers, musical instrument manufacturers, and the list could get way out of hand.

I think this is a very inexperienced lawyer you are dealing with... Why would a company want to alienate a large portion of the collectors of their product?


B.

 

[Red Green]

Are you selling the knives as "new" if so they are correct. You are not an artist for Case, so the knives are not new they are "like new" purchased new to apply artwork to. If you are representing them as new and you are not a dealer buying wholesale and selling them unchanged you are misrepresenting the knives.

Bob

 

[tim halloran]

MrMister: Go to www.bearandsoncutlery.com . American made good quality. Also check out www.smokeymountainknifeworks.com

 

[MrMister]

I would love to send the president an e-mail. If anyone can find that address for me, I would greatly appreciate it and I'll mention to that lawyer to visit here and explain exactly her reasoning when she e-mails me back that many others would like to know her reasoning. Well I hope to hear a reply from her tomorrow or very soon and will be sure to let everyone know here exactly what she says. I explained to her in my email everything I have here. If she is insistant, then I'll probably not try and relist other Case knives. I am not wealthy or don't have a lawyer and even if I could win in court, I could not afford to hire a lawyer and fight this. It's just very sad if she cannot understand common sense reasoning and know that I'm not trying to bootleg Case knives or sell multiples of any of mine with artwork on it. I would like to know the views other companies have on this too. I bet most are totally opposite of hers. About selling them as "New" there is a place on the webpage to list that and I always put it as "New" because I felt it was where I scrimmed it straight from the package. I'll ask her about that too if that might be the problem, Red Green. I think it's more than that though, because the listings were removed for copyright infringement. Even before hearing back from her, I honestly think she's gonna say something like I can't put my own artwork on their knives then sell it that way. I'll update everyone and also post her exact words here when I hear back from her. Thank-you for all the help.Oh and hey Tim, thank-you for the links. I actually have bought lots of rough rider knives from smokeymountainknifeworks. They are a good website to deal with and very reasonable prices. The other I will check out too. I'm hoping to find more good and affordable knives along the line of Case trapper to do my scrimshaw on. I love doing them on the Rough Riders, cause of the white, smooth bone and affordability and hope to find something similar and with a market of collectors like Case knives have.

 

[Red Green]

Believe me if you're representing them as 'new' you are in the wrong, you are not a dealer. You cannot sell it as new, it has been purchased you have a used knife. What they see is someone trying to sell one of their knifes with artwork from Case. When you say it's new you're saying it's a new knife with Case artwork, and they say it's not. They are right, you don't represent or work for Case.

Bob

 

[MrMister]

Hi, Bob. I understand that, but I honestly think it's something more than that. I'll find out when I hear back from her. Check out username garyharbour . He does exactly how I was doing and lists his as "New" also in the heading on ebay. He has sold them for a long time and has many on there right this moment for sale.

 

[Brian Marshall]

I just spent an hour skimming copyright law that might apply to this situation. Of course, I'm not a lawyer and may be looking in the wrong section?

All I can see are two possibilities...

The knives you have (or they think you have) may be Asian counterfeits of Case knives? In which case (pun) it's more about the use of the trademark "Case".

Or Case actually owns some rights to the artwork you worked from? Highly unlikely...


If they simply want it made clear that the factory did not do the scrimshaw, that's pretty easy to remedy.

If you did not already state that you were the scrimshaw artist and you are not affiliated with Case - then do so.


It'll be interesting to see if they are willing to come on here and explain what they think you did wrong.



B.