Question: Master?

[golden forge]

At a jewelers symposium many years ago I had a chance to ask Master jeweler Doug Zaruba, what his definition of a master jeweler was, his answer was " A jeweler than can fix any mistake that he might make".
So here is the question, I know that other than Sam, there are more than one Master Engraver on the Engravers Cafe, so what is your definition of a Master Engraver?

Dave

 

[Brian Marshall]

Someone who has managed to survive off of nuthin' but engravin' for at least ten years?


Brian


(And knows a coupla hundred ways to make meals outta beans and rice...)

 

[tim halloran]

GF: They are Masters in FEGA, It is awarded after you pass the Masters test.

 

[Red Green]

Perhaps the question should be asked is, 'is the term Master applicable without an apprentice system ?'. Without the apprentice system the 'Master' is a teacher, a 'Professor' or a professional artist so in a modern world perhaps the term 'Engraving Professor' would be proper. Would that make the rest of us engraving nerds? :thinking:

Bob

 

[Chujybear]

I'm with redgreen here.
Not to put statements in his mouth when he was really positing a question.
But I think that a master is one that teaches.
Might be another can of worms. If technically anybody with an apprentice is a master. Might cheapen the title?
Safest bet is that is an honorific the community bestows on a carver... Weather than be self proclaimed..?

 

[Red Green]

You know 'Engraving Professor' sounds like a confidence man, how about adding an official qualifier to 'Master', in Latin of course. 'Master Ex Arte Cathedra de Caelatura'. Then we could affectionately call them 'Arte', fitting is it not? Didn't Paul Simon have a song with the words 'you can call me Arte', or was that a song about a Dixie chicken? :thinking:

Bob

 

[golden forge]

I can see the teaching as one facet of a master, but I agree that there more to it than that.
When I was the head jeweler at a shop in Santa Rosa, I had an apprentice that I was teaching and that took over when I finally moved away, this in no way made me a master. Years have gone by, and I would still rate myself no higher than skilled journeyman, so is Chujybear correct that it is a honorific the community bestows upon an artist or craftsman/woman ?
Just a thought.

 

[DakotaDocMartin]

Some figure they must be a Master after so many years and do self-proclaim this. Oftentimes, the media will errantly call someone who is not a Master, a Master. I believe that a person must be a member of a guild and pass a test and submit a masterpiece to properly be awarded the title.

Wikipedia: Master Craftsman

 

[Red Green]

Well, all titles are 'honorific' what makes the titles mean something is you. A group of teachers giving a student a slip of paper brings them nothing but recognition from others who believe it has meaning, all about confidence and blind belief. You hire a man and put him in a police officer's uniform and he is one. If you believe in empty words and decoration the world is a simple place.

Bob

 

[mrthe]

A master in the art is not a teacher, can be a teacher too but generally is someone who knows the fundamentals of his Art and he is " excellent" and very expert in what do ,in this case in engraving and can be take like a reference or a example to follow for other people that do or study the same.

 

[Red Green]

You are correct mrthe, a Master is not a teacher, that is not the job of a Master, he is 'the' Artist. You learn from a Master by association and doing your job. Today's Masters are teachers and professionals they do not match the original meaning of the word at all.

Bob

 

[TyG]

I am a papered Tradesman in the Saddlery profession, I have completed an apprenticeship of 4 years been assessed by my peers. I have been a Saddler for 28 years and by definition, up until I have had an Apprentice or student under my direction, I still a Tradesman. I am considered a Master when I take students, Apprentices or open my workshop to lesser skilled members of my chosen field to increase their skills or abilities.

The definition of Master as you are interpreting it is tied to the skill level of the individual where it is intended to be their ability and intent to impart knowledge and increase skills to better the art they follow. Ty.

 

[Red Green]

TyG, I don't know what you mean by 'interpreting it' the title Master for any art or trade had the same meaning. The use of 'Master' in the modern world is 'interpreting it' to mean something else. The fact is it is an empty title, no King has given sanction to any American authority to place the title of Master Engraver on anyone, so it only means something if you believe in it, no one has ordered you to do so.

Bob

 

[Red Green]

Oh heck TyG I didn't notice you were from Australia. Does the state sanction Masters of trades and arts in Australia?

Bob

 

[Tim Wells]

When you master something what are you in fact doing? You master the art of (?) by perfecting skills, thought processes, and techniques to accomplish exceptional end results be it engraving, playing an instrument, gourmet cooking, painting, you get the idea. When a person consistently exhibits these mastered traits in his art, he is said to have mastered that which he does so it just naturally follows that he is a master.

That term is bestowed upon a person in several ways, traditionally as in Europe it is through apprenticeship and eventually earned that way. Here in the states in the engraving world we don't have that system in widespread use and in the case of FEGA the term used to be "professional engraver" however, we changed that term to be more in line with tradition in this particular art form. The credentials are the same and so are the requirements. You basically have to prove up by exhibiting proof of your skills in all areas applicable to the art of engraving and for us, that is focused on the engraving of firearms.

However, to be a master at anything you either are or you ain't. You don't have to be recognized in some official way; you just earn that realization by hard work, exacting practice and impeccable results, and having the well versed ability to fix your mistakes counts.

 

[Roger Bleile]

From the engraving glossary:

MASTER ENGRAVER – In the United States, the Firearms Engravers Guild of America has in place a process to certify highly skilled gun engravers and bestow the title of FEGA Master Engraver. To achieve this certification, a member engraver must submit an application, meet certain requirements and submit sample work to a jury of previously certified masters. At present there are approximately 41 FEGA Certified Masters in the United States. FEGA Certified Masters are authorized to use an official seal to designate their status.

It should be noted that all FEGA members are not certified masters however there are members who engrave at the highest levels of the art who, for personal reasons, have not chosen to go through the process of becoming certified.

Also in the US, the Colt Firearms Co. certifies certain gun engravers as “Colt Master Engraver.â€￾ The fact that an engraver works in the Colt factory does not automatically qualify the engraver as a Colt Master. This designation is bestowed by the head of the Colt Custom Shop on those deemed qualified. A very few freelance engravers are designated as Colt Master Engravers by virtue of their selection to engrave the annual Colt Collectors Assn. show gun which is inevitably a very ornate museum quality show piece.

A small number of other engravers working in the United States carry an official designation of Master Engraver by virtue of having received that designation from a sanctioning agency in another country such as Austria, Belgium, France, or Germany. All other gun engravers in North America who use the title “Master Engraverâ€￾ are using a self-bestowed title.

In the jewelry and die making trades there are no guilds to certify master engravers however some jewelry or die engravers may have received such a designation from their employer.

Outside the United States, particularly in Europe, there are formal schools, trade guilds, or official governmental bodies who are authorized to bestow the title of Master Engraver on those who have met strict guidelines and passed written and skill tests as well as sufficient longevity in the trade. For example, in Germany the title "Master" is bestowed by a governmental organization and is protected by law.

*******************

"The fact is it is an empty title, no King has given sanction to any American authority to place the title of Master Engraver on anyone..." Red Green aka Bob

The title Master was rarely, if ever bestowed by a monarch. It was traditionally bestowed by a trade guild, not unlike FEGA. In the case of FEGA, the master title is hardly an "empty title" as Bob aka Red Green (whoever he actually is) has stated above. Every engraver who holds the FEGA Master certification has worked diligently toward that goal and has received the official approval of his or her peers as well as those who pay for their work.

On another note, another engraver once remarked on this forum that, regardless of whether you consider yourself a master or not, the instant someone puts your work up for sale you will be called a master by the seller.

 

[DakotaDocMartin]

"The fact is it is an empty title, no King has given sanction to any American authority to place the title of Master Engraver on anyone..." Red Green aka Bob

The title Master was rarely, if ever bestowed by a monarch. It was traditionally bestowed by a trade guild, not unlike FEGA. In the case of FEGA, the master title is hardly an "empty title" as Bob aka Red Green (whoever he actually is) has stated above.

 

[Dave London]

DITTOS
Doc

 

[Roger B]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradesman

"Few trades still make a distinction between a qualified tradesman and a master."

I've been in the jewellery trade for about 35 years and to my knowledge in Australia we do not have an officially recognised and independent process to attain the title of 'Master Jeweller". That certainly doesn't stop anybody from giving themselves that title which in my opinion is a damned shame. I could never see myself reaching such a level as I would (and do) call myself a jobber - lots of resizes and repairs - heck someones got to do it and I reckon a Master (either official or self proclaimed) would not.

The title should be skills based. In the old days - based on hand skills and techniques. More recently one must also consider skills such as laser welding or perhaps even Cad Cam.

The body who bestows the title of Master should be the peak body of the trade and recognised as such by the government so that there can be no quibbling when other lesser or independent associations wish to get in on the act and, in an extreme position, might sell the title for cash. This should be the structure for any trade whether it be hairdresser, bricklayer or even engraver.

Just my thoughts,

Roger

 

[Red Green]

True, no king has bestowed anyone a Master Engraver, I believe if you would have read a little more carefully you would have noticed I said " no King has given sanction to any American authority" and the FEGA has no such authority and cannot give it to themselves. They can accept it among themselves and others may agree however... No amount of time or quantity of lines cut make you a Master, most will work a lifetime and never approach the level that should be called Master. What should be considered is the body of publicly available work, proof, not titles or time or the political intricacies of private originations. It matters little as I don't imagine any of us will start an official 'Master Engraver' political movement to create an recognized title. That's why I thought the qualifier for the title may offer the clout of engravers themselves. I forgot to offer how I interpret the qualifier, not everybody likes Latin, so, Master, Ex Arte, by the rule of art (implies the body of work has proven) the chair, Cathedra (respect and honor is due) de Caelatura, from engraving. True it doesn't say by order of the King but maybe we could get Bill Gates to put his seal to it.

You think that's funny Doc? My real name is Rumpelstilskin but don't tell anybody. Guys, I've posted my real name, nobody cares, you know? Except maybe Doc and I don't relish the thought of being cartoon bombed.

Bob