Coin Carving Software

[Degs]

Just found this today.......

http://www.designscomputed.com/

Carving/engraving software, I think it's output is for a 3 axis engraving/laser machine. The demo version has the output disabled, but it will print. Nickel carvers or any one having a go at bas-relief may find it useful. I'm still playing......good fun......

Cheers

Degs

 

[monk]

i have a need to hold onto some of the primordial skills. machines can earn you quick bucks- but they can't deliver the fun and joy of doing some of this stuff by hand .we can all play a stereo- how many can play a harpsichord, a banjo, or a trumpet. ? maybe a guitar, a dulcimer, perhaps the minstrel bones ? i got a laser, but my nickel is strictly goin the old way.

 

[Degs]

Hi Monk.... I'm of the same mind...... I prefer creating my chips by hand, but the software would be useful as an aid to viewing.... say.. a photo rendered as a bas relief, thought it may be a good self teaching aid, free demo just outputs to screen and print. I play lead guitar, for a heavy rock/metal band....... far too loud, wife says I should know better at my age!!!!!

Degs

 

[Crazy Horse]

That's an interesting program, but I'd rather do it by hand. There's a certain personal satisfaction from making something out of nothing, using nothing more than your hands and your mind.

"Degs" if you have Photo Shop there is a feature that allows you to view any photo in relief and more.

 

[Steve Adams]

There is a place for technology in the world of engraving, but don't worry, it does not replace a true artist and craftsman. Human hands and the brain that guides them can do things that software and 3D engraving machines cannot. Technology is improving, is useful in production, but is not meant to take over a skilled craft such as hand engraving. There is no heart and soul in a computer and although the software engineer, and the Cad-Cam operator possess these qualities, the machine itself does not and is therefore limited. No 3-D axis can match an unlimited axis of the hand, or the improvising of our brain. Only a human can sit at a bench and select from hundreds of tools at their disposal and know exactly how to use them for a desired effect. 3D machines are in my field and have been for a number of years now. They are bennificial, but it still takes a hand guy to make a design come alive. Even if software and machines ever get that good, there will still be a demand for hand engravers by people who desire true art.

 

[Swede]

I think Degs referenced the software purely as an item of interest, and a curiosity - I don't think he's advocating using it and perhaps trying to pass it off as hand cut. There are two things that reveal machine vs hand... the first is that 98% of machines use either a rotating cutter which leaves telltale tool marks, or a diamond drag. The second is that the lines are too perfect. A computerized straight line is TOO straight. And of course, there's something missing, and that is the soul of the artist who did it by hand.

I've got a very tight little CNC machine that could easily clean up a hobo nickel field to perfection prior to hand work, but that too would be "cheating", and even if the machine cut field is perhaps abrasive blasted or otherwise retouched, it'd be detectable due to the perfection (flatness) of the field. I suppose if you were desperate to counterfeit a hand-cut field, you could probably program in very minor and random "errors" for the cutter, just enough to make it look like hand work.

Again, I think the intent of the post was just a "hey, this is cool software of interest" and not a promotion of computer coin carving as a replacment for hand cutting.

 

[Steve Adams]

I do agree that the software was the point, but it still brings up an interesting aspect of engraving, and one that has actually been debated for several years now. The moment you mention CAD-CAM in my field it brings up some pretty strong emotions one way or another. CAD-CAM probably doesn't relate to the gun and knife engravers very much or at all, is that correct? Die engraving is a big difference in that CAD-CAM is sweeping through the industry. I am happy to report however that a $250,000 software and machine set up is lacking in comparrison to a good hand die engraver. The ironic part is that a hand man is needed to make the computer cut dies cleaner and more detailed. " John Henry " is still the champ. Out of curiosity, how would the gun and knife engravers feel if people started having their work done by by a computer controled machine? I know this isn't likely to happen, just a what if, and sorry for straying off the subject. Computer art programs do amaze me. I just don't like mixing computers and craftsmanship.

 

[Tom Curran]

Some folks won't care HOW their product is made. That's the market to seek if you want to produce work with a machine.

Handwork is appreciated by those who do it, and by their clientele. I don't think this machinery is a threat to our business.

I have to say that it's pretty cool stuff. I have a machine shop and a cnc mill, and with the right software, I could do this too. Electronics and machinery have come a long way. Would it be fun? Not as much as hand work.

 

[Ray Cover]

Steve,

I see it as no different than prototype machining and cnc machining in industry. My father worked for most of his life as a prototype machinist. He is a very exacting and skilled craftsman who has no idea how to even aproach a cnc set up. Each has its advantages.

My dad can make a one part in about 10% of the time it takes a guy with a cnc set up to do the programing set his tooling up and make the one part.

However, The guy with the cnc set up can make a 1000 parts in 10% of the time it takes my dad to make 1000 parts.

Computer engraving is no different. I a customer is looking for a one of a kind gun his best investment and lowest cost is to get a hand engraver. If he wants a 1000 or more identical guns he is better off going to a computer aided set up.

Another thing to throw into the mix is this. We have discussed on here many times in the past how each individual engraver's work has its own nuances that are very hard for another person to completely replicate. It is even more difficult for an machine to replicate a hand engravers look. I suspect it always will be.

Ray

 

[Steve Adams]

Steve,

Another thing to throw into the mix is this. We have discussed on here many times in the past how each individual engraver's work has its own nuances that are very hard for another person to completely replicate. It is even more difficult for an machine to replicate a hand engravers look. I suspect it always will be.

Ray

Well said Ray. Steve

 

[Degs]

Thanks Swede, couldn't have put t better myself. I just thought some one starting carving might find it useful to see a photo in bas-relief, give them some ideas on cutting......... with hand tools........ and it's free. I was actually researching the possibility of striking large art medals from my own HANDCUT dies (hint, hint....advice.. ... I'm sure Steve was in here a minute ago.... ) when I came across the software.

Very nice work Crazy Horse, I prefer hand work, although I have moved to airpower recently.

I think there's a place for computers etc, alot of people on the forum use them for designing and transfering artwork...... Oooooh...... now I've done it....... ... I use this technique now, but there is still a lot of occasions when I have to go back to plasticine and french chalk and hand drawing. I don't think a computer controlled machine could follow a line in french chalk????

Degs

 

[Ron Smith]

I think you hit the nail square on the head Ray. I think however, it goes even deeper than that. the satisfaction of being self sufficient is one of the basic human desires and means of self esteem. At any time you choose, you could let go of the world of technology and make it on your own. that is really what i think part of it is about, and it is about quality over quantity as well. Artists seem to have a depth about them that the rest of the world can't and doesn't relate to. That sensitivity to simple, original, uncomplicated things that can remain under ones own control is a great sorce of satisfaction ..................and that is my contribution and two cents on the subject. One thing machines or men will never reproduce is another mans personality because that is the reflection of ones own individual uniqueness and machines also can never replace the loving touch of the human hand. So be it.
Forward!
Ron S

 

[Degs]

Perfect Ron........ Perfect. What more can one say.........

Degs

 

[optmst]

Stunning work

I've just joined the forum today, a guy at GRS told me about it. I'm looking for information about what angles I should be using on my gravers to do detailed work. Your work shows the kind of detail I'm into so perhaps you have some suggestions for me. I have the GraverMach, are you familiar with it?

 

[Degs]

Hi Aline..... Welcome to the forum.... it's a warm welcoming place with a friendly helpfull crowd of folks
Don't know who the question is aimed at...... but you'd do better to start a new thread with this question, you'll probably get loads of different answers from guys and girls with a lot more experience with the Gravermach than myself.

Degs

 

[Andrew Biggs]

CNC machines, lasers etc are great for mass produced items at an economical price but they will never replace actual hand engraving. The “Franklin Mintâ€￾ style of collector’s guns, knives, watches and anything else you can think of has a certain mass appeal market. It’s not my own taste but plenty of other people think it’s great.

I personally think that computers have a place in hand engraving. It’s still the mind behind it that drives it. For transferring designs, outlines of parts, certain repetitive patterns, picture work etc it can be a great tool to use. On the other hand, if relied on too much it can dumb you down to the computers limited capability. It is after all only a machine and it can’t think for you. If used wisely and appropriately it can be an asset to some people, to others it can be a real pain. At the end of the day it is just another tool.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[monk]

i gotta fess up i do all technologies, hand, panto, computer, laser. some people do not care. they want fast & cheap. well i give fast and try to avoid cheap. but i do have folks who want the hand work, and i'm thankful i'm still able to do it. i guess we all have moved forward a bit. we use scopes, air compressors, dentist drills, and a whole host of other junk that was unheard of when i first began. i suppose all of us rely on computer layout or at least copy machine reproduction. this would probably have sent paroxysymal convulsions through out the world of engraving a mere 60 or 70 years ago ! these people then would have flat out revolted at such heretical nonsense !

 

[dcarr]

Greetings,

I was informed of this discussion and decided to chime in. My name is Daniel Carr and I am the author (and user) of the software in question (VS3D). I wrote VS3D from the point of view of a user. I wanted to engrave dies for coins and medals, and I wanted to do it using CNC. I found that the available CAD/CAM software packages were too restrictive (and expensive), and they weren't good at free-form relief surface sculpting. So that is what I concentrated on. I have a degree in mechanical engineering and I worked for many years programming CAD/CAM systems and image processing software. But I also have done some artistic work, including designing the actual New York and Rhode Island state quarter coins for the US Mint.

Some people are intimidated by computer technology. That is understandable - it can be quite complex. Many people here are masters at engraving by hand. I certainly would not advocate changing your approach if that is what you are good at and you enjoy doing it.

But I would like to dispell one myth. People have the impression that if it is done by computer then it is "cheating". The fact is, there is no such thing as artistic design created by computer. In VS3D, you essentially push digital clay around with a mouse. The end result is entirely dependent upon your hand movements and your choices on how to apply the sculpting tools provided in the software. The actual sculpting is not automatic or computer-generated. It is human-generated with the aid of a computer tool. The part that is automatic, is when you run a file from VS3D on a CNC milling/engraving machine.

Everyone has a different style and a different approch to engraving. I admire the craftmanship that goes into a "Hobo" nickel. But something created with the aid of a digital tool can have just as high a level of craftmanship. The skills needed to be a good hand engraver are very similar to the skills needed to sculpt digitally.

PS:
Here is a picture of medal that I recently made by sculpting and engraving the dies via VS3D and CNC:

 

[Steve Adams]

Degs,
One of these days I will put together a tutorial of some of the things I do including the making of dies for coins and medals. I should probably include bas-relief sculpting for reduction to dies. In the meantime if you have technical questions or need a recommendtion for a private mint you can always contact me. Steve

 

[Degs]

Hi dcarr...... nice medals..... clever bit of software.

Next time....... tell me to keep my mouth shut please.....

Thanks for that Steve....... I'll take you up on the offer...... I'll be in touch