Chinese equipment.

[Sam]

Sam,

You hit the nail on the head. It is in fact the "Graver Helper" or poorly spelt "Craver Helper" that I have. I feel hugely embarrassed now....

That's right...I'd forgotten about the misspelling "Craver Helper".

No need to feel embarrassed. You're a newbie at this and it's an honest mistake...if it even is a mistake.

The first order of business is to get your gear running so you can engrave, or get your money back which is what I'd advise. GRS and Lindsay tools are occasionally available used, so that's how you would get the good deal that you're inquiring about. As for new products, they're going to be expensive and I'm not aware of anyone giving deep discounts.

GRS has been making the GraverMax series for many, many years and there are tens of thousands of machines out there. An older Gravermax in decent condition will suit you well. Those machines run forever and will outlast all of us. The price is usually right on them since the newer generation of GRS machines have come out, and those old Gravermaxes are workhorses.

 

[hash]

That's right...I'd forgotten about the misspelling "Craver Helper".

No need to feel embarrassed. You're a newbie at this and it's an honest mistake...if it even is a mistake.

The first order of business is to get your gear running so you can engrave, or get your money back which is what I'd advise. GRS and Lindsay tools are occasionally available used, so that's how you would get the good deal that you're inquiring about. As for new products, they're going to be expensive and I'm not aware of anyone giving deep discounts.

GRS has been making the GraverMax series for many, many years and there are tens of thousands of machines out there. An older Gravermax in decent condition will suit you well. Those machines run forever and will outlast all of us. The price is usually right on them since the newer generation of GRS machines have come out, and those old Gravermaxes are workhorses.

Thanks Sam, ideally would love a Lindsay system. They look super cool too! I'll keep lurking around the buy & sell and pray someone lists one up!

 

[Roger Bleile]

Hash,

I will repeat what I just wrote in another beginner's thread.

For a beginner who has to teach himself and can't afford the expense of power assisted engraving systems or travel to classes, I recommend buying the instructional manual entitled Engraving Historic Firearms by John Schippers. At $129. it may seem expensive but that book will teach you everything you need to know to make your own tools, create designs, and finish your work in the most basic and inexpensive manner. Even if your goal is not to engrave guns, especially muzzle loaders, the book contains everything you need to know to engrave just about anything. Here is a link to the book:http://www.airgraver.com/Engraving-H...-Schippers.htm

Most engravers in the UK work entirely with the burin and/or the hammer and chisel and do fabulous work. If your goal is to engrave jewelry, and non gun items in soft metals, a selection of inexpensive burins is all you need. If you are going to work on guns and anything made of hardened steel, the hammer & chisel will be needed.

Most of us who began engraving over 30 years ago learned with H&C and burins. Though many of us have transitioned to power assisted tools the majority of engravers in the UK and Europe work only with traditional tools and actually look down on those of us who use power assisted gravers.

RB

 

[hash]

Roger,

Great info, many thanks for that. Yes I am looking to engrave jewellery only but I will still look into the book that you advised.

Well this venture is turning out to be a very educational one and I haven't even opened up a book or DVD!! I really didn't know the UK frowned upon power assisted tools! I'm looking at the work done by guys like Sam and I'm in awe!

Hope to keep in touch with you guys over the coming months.

If anyone out there is willing to sell a Lindsey Classic, PLEASE give me a heads up!!!!!!

Hiren.

 

[Eugene Carkoski]

We all make mistakes as we go through life, the secret is not to repeat them. Just look what half the voters in the country did.

 

[Sam]

We all make mistakes as we go through life, the secret is not to repeat them. Just look what half the voters in the country did.

Eugene: Please don't take this thread in a political direction. :no:

 

[Willem Parel]

Eugene: Please don't take this thread in a political direction. :no:

I didn´t have the intention to participate in this thread but I want you to know that I could have make the same mistake as Hash in my unawareness when I started.

And Sam , I don´t think Eugene takes this thread in a political direction, as a reader of a foreign language I read it as a saying.
To me it say´s: go with the majority, they aren´t all wrong.

 

[Dulltool]

Hash,
Something to think about is that you can recover the total cost of a GRS on the sale of just one engraved gun...... It could/will take you a few years though. I jumped in head first buying a GRS Gravermach years ago and haven't looked back.

England is just to far to drive..... I wish you luck,
Dennis

 

[Eugene Carkoski]

sorry sam and everyone , just got carried away.

 

[GTJC460]

Have you attempted to "tune" the machine to the handpiece you are using?

With a gravermax, you ever so slightly depress the foot pedal and adjust the regulator on the back till the airpressure is right to make the handpiece just barely start working.

Here is a link to the gravermax manual. http://www.grstools.com/PDF/004-041_MaxMate.pdf
Might be helpful

 

[hash]

Have you attempted to "tune" the machine to the handpiece you are using?

With a gravermax, you ever so slightly depress the foot pedal and adjust the regulator on the back till the airpressure is right to make the handpiece just barely start working.

Here is a link to the gravermax manual. http://www.grstools.com/PDF/004-041_MaxMate.pdf
Might be helpful

Thanks Bert, I think the actual problem is the poorly manufactured foot pedal. The Chinese pedal seems to to just jump with power rather than gradual. The problem may be the exhaust from the pedal. I will be attaching a valve there soon and try to control the air with the valve's tap.

Hopefully should work in theory!

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Roger,

Great info, many thanks for that. Yes I am looking to engrave jewellery only but I will still look into the book that you advised.

Well this venture is turning out to be a very educational one and I haven't even opened up a book or DVD!! I really didn't know the UK frowned upon power assisted tools! I'm looking at the work done by guys like Sam and I'm in awe!

Hope to keep in touch with you guys over the coming months.

If anyone out there is willing to sell a Lindsey Classic, PLEASE give me a heads up!!!!!!

Hiren.

Firstly, British engravers do use air assisted systems and they're not frowned upon but for a lot of jewellery and precious metal engraving hand pushing a graver will suffice. Most British gun engravers now use air assistance because steels used vary in toughness and the versatility offered by air assistance is far greater than hand tools. Most Italian and Belgian engravers still use hand tools though but I don't think they actually "frown" upon air assistance, they are just happy with what they've always used.

Secondly, a quote by John Ruskin that holds as true today as when it was first written:

“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When
you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay
too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you
bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The
common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a
lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well
to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will
have enough to pay for something better.”

It sounds like you did exactly what Ruskin was speaking against, Hash. Sometimes one just has to accept that anything that is being used by professional engravers worldwide is going to cost. But even then when compared to other professions our tools are very reasonably priced.

Finally, it is no good getting on your high horse about knock offs. Do you fly in a jet aircraft.....ummm.... British technology GIVEN to the US who then creamed our aircraft industry out of existence. Ummm......RADAR....again a secret given FREELY to the US..... Ummmm.......VTOL...Harrier jump-jets built under a very cheap license by THE USA!!! See, it happens everywhere. If you have a Japanese camera or stereo these started off as "knock offs" of European products. And worst of all the reason the western economy is in the do-do's is because everyone wanted something for nothing. Why pay £40 - £50 for a shirt when you can get one from China for a fiver? ANYONE (and I dare anyone to deny they have never bought a Chinese made product) who has ever bought one product over another because of a lower price is as guilty as the next person of causing the mess we're all in and that's just about all of us!

 

[Sam]

Marcus: And let's not forget PCs, which have been cloned to death and back! I wonder if that isn't the greatest cloning ripoff of modern times.

 

[Jtan]

Has anyone try those Chinese made silent compressor? Are they any good? Their prices seems incredibly low compare to Silair. Thinking of setting up another workbench and shopping for all tools needed.

Regards,

Ron

 

[DakotaDocMartin]

Finally, it is no good getting on your high horse about knock offs. Do you fly in a jet aircraft.....ummm.... British technology GIVEN to the US who then creamed our aircraft industry out of existence. Ummm......RADAR....again a secret given FREELY to the US..... Ummmm.......VTOL...Harrier jump-jets built under a very cheap license by THE USA!!!

Jet Engines - Hans von Ohain and Sir Frank Whittle:
Dr. Hans von Ohain and Sir Frank Whittle are both recognized as being the co-inventors of the jet engine. Each worked separately and knew nothing of the other's work. Hans von Ohain is considered the designer of the first operational turbojet engine. Frank Whittle was the first to register a patent for the turbojet engine in 1930. Hans von Ohain was granted a patent for his turbojet engine in 1936. However, Hans von Ohain's jet was the first to fly in 1939. Frank Whittle's jet first flew in in 1941.

A key development was the use of pulses that were timed to provide ranging, which were sent from large antennas that provided accurate directional information. Combining the two allowed for accurate plotting of targets.

History of radar
A key development was the use of pulses that were timed to provide ranging, which were sent from large antennas that provided accurate directional information. Combining the two allowed for accurate plotting of targets.

In the 1934–1939 period, eight nations developed, independently and in great secrecy, systems of this type: the United States, Great Britain, Germany, the USSR, Japan, the Netherlands, France, and Italy. In addition, Great Britain had shared their basic information with four Commonwealth countries: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and South Africa, and these countries had also developed indigenous radar systems. During the war, Hungary was added to this list.

 

[silverchip]

Marcus, You are the MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sam]

Has anyone try those Chinese made silent compressor? Are they any good? Their prices seems incredibly low compare to Silair. Thinking of setting up another workbench and shopping for all tools needed.

Ron: I have one that I've been testing for 1.5 years and it's still going. It's in the $700+ range and it's a quiet compressor, but is not silent and not even close to the quietness of my Sil-Aire compressor, but it's ok. It is made for the dental trade.

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Doc, look up "the Tizard Mission" where we gave the US many secrets because we didn't have the manufacturing capabilities during early WW2 . Regarding radar, all the nations mentioned were working on radio detection but the Brits were ahead of the game in the use of microwave technology but we just couldn't build the flaming things and needed the USA's help for which we traded the secret. The same with Whittle's jet engine; it was streaks ahead of anything you guys had in the development pipeline.

Chinese silent compressors? Hmmm, I bought one and ended up having 3 in the space of 2 weeks and all the hassle of returning them. Each one leaked oil due to poor welds covered with nice paint. Ended up paying double and getting a SilAir.

Sam, I couldn't agree more. In fact isn't PC actually a trade name that has fallen into common usage much the same as Hoover did?

 

[hash]

This is hilarious! I liked the way we diverted from engraving to inventions, I'm glad I started this thread.

I'm not going to comment on the Concorde........

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Don't even get started on the great Pavlova debate between the Kiwi's and Aussies.........we invented it and the Aussies are trying to claim they did and have been knocking it off for the last 87 years. Every Kiwi knows they are just plain out wrong, wrong wrong!!!!

PC's , jet engines and radar pale in comparison to the importance of Pavlova!!

Cheers
Andrew