Chinese equipment.

hash

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Hi guys,

I'm venturing into engraving but on a very tight budget (I can't stress this enough!) so I invested in a Chinese "Graversmith". It came with a Bulino handpiece and foot pedal.

Has anyone had experience with these? I have setup without much knowedge and I'm finding the handpiece extremely shakey! Getting the right amount of pressure to the handpiece can be quite tricky, I've tried all the usual stuff like adjusting air flow but the handpiece shakes like crazy!!:confused:

If I invested in a GRS 901 handpiece, would this solve my problem? Sorry to ask this as I have not used or seen one being used before.

Thanks for your input (who ever that may be). :thumbsup:
 

atexascowboy2011

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Try it BEFORE you buy it. You don't buy a truck or marry your girl before trying THEM out, or do you?
Purchase a Lindsay and you will have NO regrets. Plus, later on you won't spend days, weeks or even years searching for the perfect graver, you'll already have it! Contact Steve to see if he has a lease/purchase plan for his PALM graver.
 

Keith

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I can't say if it will but you should contact the seller you got it from. Maybe they can help with the setup of the machine.
 

Sam

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You get exactly what you pay for when it comes to tools, especially the high precision tools we use for engraving. In my opinion you would have been much better off saving your money and waiting another six months if you have to as opposed to buying a Chinese copy. The way it is now, you're in the learning curve and you can't tell if a problem you're having is you or faulty equipment. That's a very uncomfortable place for a beginner to be. You need assurance that the tool side is rock solid so that you can concentrate on your work.

To answer your question as to whether a genuine GRS 901 handpiece will help fix the problem, I would say that it probably won't get any worse, but whether it fixes it is anyone's guess. I've seen and engraved with some of those Chinese fakes of GRS and Lindsay tools at trade shows in Asia and they were absolute junk. Get your money back if you can.
 

monk

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lets face it, imho you've wasted money that could otherwise serve you well. long days ago, i was so strapped for cash-- all my stuff was made by me. none of it was particulary very good. but with lots of practice i ended up selling stuff to customers. i used that money to buy the good stuff, 1 item at a time.rushing into this artform probably guarantees that you wont prevail. take your time, learn to draw well if need be, h& c, or simple push graving can be done on virtually pocket change. just don't give up.
 

leschowe

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Hi Everyone,
I don't know, maybe Sam or one of the Moderators will kill this post, but I feel very strongly about this topic. I am not generally one to start trouble but it is what it is.........

I am now retired, but I was a design engineer for 35 years and I presently have 9 US Patents. I get extremely annoyed and angered when someone or some government or some commercial entity steals existing patent rights - especially when they are from US companies. Over my life I have seen millions of US jobs go over seas partly because of this kind of theft, and quite frankly I am sick of it!!!!

I actually have no idea if GRS has existing patents on these products - although knowing them I expect that they do - but before I would even consider purchasing a product like this, I would first check with GRS - or Steve Lindsay, for that matter, if this was a knock off of one of his products - to see if any of their patents were being violated. If these Chinese companies, or Russian companies, or whatever companies are stealing GRS patents then I would not even consider purchasing the product. And, quit frankly, I have absolutely no respect for anyone that would purchase such a product - these people are just as much of a thief as the stealing company.

Sorry Sam, and Moderators, please feel free to delete this post, with no hard feelings, if you feel that it is not appropriate.

Les Schowe
 
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Andrew Biggs

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Hi Les

I agree with many of the things you have said.

However, the customer is often totally unaware of the underlying legal aspect of what they are buying. To the consumer, if a product is presented in a legitimate way and the price is right then they buy it. This is something that each and every one of us are guilty of whether it be engraving equipment, stereos or other electrical equipment. The internet has only exacerbated the problem………it also very much depends on what part of the world you live in.

Customers buy these things in good faith and expect the product to perform, at the very least, as advertised. We have all been caught by the deal that was to good to be true. All we can do is chalk it up to experience and hopefully learn from it………till the next time that is :)

Hash………unfortunately you have brought a piece of junk. Go back to where you brought it from and ask it to be fixed, replaced, or your money back. If none of this happens then you may have to live with it. You would be better off saving your money and buying a genuine GraverSmith from GRS. They are an exceptionally good machine.

If money is an issue then learn to cut using hammer and chisel. They will work better than what you have.

Cheers
Andrew
 

Donny

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Hash,

if you bought this through ebay using Paypal I'd file a claim for a defective product. Then I'd contact an engraver that teaches near you or find a trade show that GRS will be at and go. Being on a budget is Ok. Get Meeks book, a hammer and chisel, and a few push gravers and learn...save and go power assisted...

My opinion only... This is not a cheap "hobby" or "hobby turn income" it takes some good money to get a bench set up properly. It takes 20x more in time and learning and drawing drawing drawing... If you are passionate about this you wll find your way...

I see this is your first post...I hope you stay around and have a blast becoming an engraver. After my family it is my favorite thing to do.

And for those here who now me my Harley is part of the family :)

Donny
 

DakotaDocMartin

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“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgottenâ€￾ – Benjamin Franklin:thinking:
 

leschowe

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Hi Andrew,

First, thanks for not deleting my post, I was a little worried - don't want to get in any trouble with you guys.

I agree with your point, but I also think that people should be made aware that there are a lot of other hard working people out there who are using investors money to develop new, innovative, and sometimes wonderful products, and that there are also entities out there who would steal those ideas for their own profit. If we support these thieving entities, then we are stifling innovation and all possible killing all of those wonderful new products ideas which may be coming fourth in the future. Whether you are a GRS fan, or a Lindsay fan, or a fan of both, you have to admit that they are a lot of wonderful products out there for us engravers to choose from.

I guess that I an not criticizing, just trying to make people aware of these points.

nuf said,

Les
 

Andrew Biggs

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Hi Les

No worries :)

It just reinforces the old story of researching a product thoroughly if you can. Especially a working product like a tool that has working parts that take a severe beating. Unfortunately the price can sometimes distract even the most rational and cynical mind occasionally.

And yes, we are blessed with some great product in our industry and some very clever people.

Cheers
Andrew
 
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Sam

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Les: I certainly understand your frustration. In today's world reverse engineering and cloning of products is everywhere you go. Nearly every good piece of equipment or technology is copied. Look how many of us have Meiji microscope clones and Chinese versions of power tools (Harbor Freight). When patents expire then it becomes legal of course, and in this case I don't know if the equipment hash purchased is protected by US patents or not.

I have seen the guys (two brothers) who do a lot of the cloning of engraving equipment as well as other tools. They're like two coyotes sneaking around trade shows in Asia, sniffing the air and looking for something else to copy. In some cases the cloned products carry different names (like Graver Helper), and on others they copy everything down to the last detail including labels and instruction booklets. These absolute copies are a nightmare to the manufactures of the original products because they're poorly made, break down, and make the original manufacturer look bad because the end user isn't aware he's using a fake. Unscrupulous dealers mix the fakes in with originals so and it becomes very difficult to tell them apart. :confused:
 

DakotaDocMartin

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In some cases the cloned products carry different names (like Graver Helper), and on others they copy everything down to the last detail including labels and instruction booklets.

eBay has become a huge market for the knock-off people and they are into just about anything to make money. Brand name products such as Surefire tactical lights, Aimpoint red dot scopes, camera accessories of various brands... you name it, it's probably been done already. I've found it's best to deal with reputable dealers and pay a fair price. It's better in the long run. Especially when you don't have to end up buying the real thing on top of the cost of the fake. We've all probably done that once. A good friend of mine says to mark it down as "tuition" for the learning experience.

There's a lot of learning to do in this world. "We get too soon old, and too late smart" is an old saying I've always liked. :)
 

hash

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Although I do feel a little offended being called a thief, I do apologies for insulting your good nature Les. As an end user I don't even consider things like patents when trying to purchase a tool within my budgets.
 

hash

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I appreciate your understanding Andrew. There are some people in this thread who have shot me down in flames when all it was is an innocent venture.
 

hash

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Hey Dennis, I live in the United Kingdom, London. I Really like the Lindsey and GRS tools but the price of these tools is way beyond my budget. Do you know of any good deals?
 

hash

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Sam,

You hit the nail on the head. It is in fact the "Graver Helper" or poorly spelt "Craver Helper" that I have. I feel hugely embarrassed now....
 

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