Another design for my pocket knife.

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

I have a Kershaw pocket knife for some years, now I want engrave it.

I still don't have Ron's books I ordered in Antwerp, so I have to deal with What I know about scrolls, and that is not mush. So I'm looking out for Ron Smith's books, as I will probably understand more about scrolls.
In the meanwhile I go on practising, but who not.

I think I can hold a pencil and draw smooth lines, I also know about space and negative space, problem with design is that it takes a lot of time to complete a perfect design, and these I show you here are not yet perfect. But still it amazes me that I already understand something about scroll design.

All critiques are welcome.

arnaud

 

[Ron Smith]

Wow! That is very nice, but keep your border consistant around the design. The design is too close to the edge on the lower side, but that is easy to fix when you transfer the design. Well, maybe not so easy since the designs originate from the pins. You will have to make a few adjustments. Otherwise, good looking design with the exception of being a little cluttery in a couple places and tying all of the elements together, touching, specially if you are going to do background work. You will see these things if you copy this drawing and blacken the background areas, just to expose whatever flaws that are there.

Ron S

Ron S

 

[Ross]

Arnaud
That knife looks a lot like the Kershaw Chive model. I did one of those as my first attempt at stainless.
Needless to say I broke alot of graver tips on it. I was able to do it but carbide gravers would have made it
easier to do I think. I like your design. Look forward to seeing it cut.
Ross

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Ron, I know about the border, I will fix that. Indeed it is to close to the border on some parts, but the border I have drawn is smaller than the knife border.
Yes I want to do the background as well, and I made a blackened background on this design.
I probably will make other shadings and refine the design.

But I'm glad the design isn't totally crap for you, so I can continue to work on it. Understanding more about scrolls would help of course, so I'm looking forward to read in your book. But probably I will have your books begin January.


@ Ross, I have a 120° carbide engraver, that I made of a blank 90°. The best engraver I have, and don't want anything else any more. I can use it for days on both Titanium, brass, silver and steel, and I don't have to sharpen it everyday. First I thought the point would break easily, but once I had a bit control on the engraver, I know where and why it would break.

To be continued,

 

[ddushane]

I like the layout Arnaud, Be sure & post pictures of it when you get it cut. Dwayne

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Thank you all for the support.

As the edges of my previous design didn't totally match, I started all over again with a new design.

I think I made some progress making design, although I don't know what leaf I'm drawing. I sure know the whole world is full of scrolls and leaf, so I thought let the pencil do the design, I will lead it.

Drawing some shading wile making the design helps me to see the relief, layout and tone.

I think you can't mix different leaf, and as I don't know what leaf I'm drawing, it could be totally wrong.
Ron's book sure will help me on that.

Another failure in this design is probably that there are four parts in the design, and that only the two on the left side are one. The two on the right side are more separated from each other, so I will have to find a way to make it a unit I suppose.

I'm making a great progress on cutting shading lines, I will show you when finished.

So what I learned today, the first day of the year but what else would one do on a day like this, is that both design and engraving helps each other to make progress.

Any comments on this design are welcome, especially about the kind of leafs that can be draw.

arnaud

 

[Ron Smith]

Arnaud,
I see some gaps in background rhythm. There are some flow problems, and the reason it is in four segments is because of the origination of each section that are starting at the screws. I also see some clutter that you have camouflaged well with shading.............. Now, I think you will get a better understanding when you get my book. You have excellent designing skills and they just need a little tweaking with structure and spiral formation and the way one spiral leads off from another to create flow, whether it is alternating scrolls or scrolls going the same direction.

Personally, I would make the design begin at one screw and then flow across the knife to the other end, but you have a pretty nice thing going and you could blend them together better by connecting or touching segments or overlapping them, and closing up some unbalanced open background spaces.

Everything I see has to do with balance, proportion and rhythm.

the screws have developed some problems just being there, but there has to be some fore thought as to what problems they would cause. You have dealt with them well, but you see what they have caused in the segmenting of the design. That could be solved with some of the suggestions, but it would be interesting to see how you solve your problems, so carry on. It is good for you to struggle with these problems as you will remember them better when you do.

I am pretty impressed with your designing skills, however.

Am anxious to see what you do next.

Rock on Arnaud!

Ron S

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Thank you Ron, taking the time to critique my design. Indeed I need the book but I understand what you are saying.
Ordered the books two weeks ago, and it will probably be arrived now, just have to go to Antwerp.
All you are saying about my design, I can see it to, especially when the design is done.

In the meanwhile I can't stop drawing at the moment, so I made some changes, and I know there are parts that need to be redraw, because they are not smooth enough.

Next try I will focus more on composition at the start only after that focusing on the detail, cause that is also the problem I think.

arnaud

 

[Tim Wells]

Arnaud,
I engraved two Kershaws and will not do any more. The style I did was similar to yours and was made of 410 Stainless but what made it HARD and TOUGH is the fact that it was heat treated. It will break tips all day long, especially carbide gravers. I had my best luck if you can call it that, with a carbalt graver blank. It's a little tougher than high speed steel and less brittle than straight carbide.

If you don't turn the vise to quickly or snap the chip out too forcefully it should help the tip not break so often. Use that 120 you like so well but I'd suggest making the heel small or short depending on how you describe things, and make the face angle steeper like 50 or even 60 degrees, it'll resist breakage a lot better this way.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Thanks for the tips Tim, I sure will try that when I notice the point breaks easily ont this knife.
But I have to give it a try to gather some experience on different materials.

arnaud

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

I know I have to slow down a bit because of my enthusiasm, but now that it is week-end I try to learn a bit more on design.
So I picked up again this tread to show how I think this one can have more flow.
The screws are still a problem, but I tried to ignore them.


arnaud

 

[KCSteve]

Looks pretty good Arnuad but I worry about all of those really small scrolls.

Try the trick of printing the design out life size and sticking it down over the knife - that will let you get a feel of whether or not you'll be able to do those smallest scrolls or not, and if they'll be big enough to see if you do engrave them.

I think you're on the right track though - just needing to work on the balance between what you can fit in when you're drawing and what you want to engrave.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Steve, I printed them on life size, it could work.

First I will give it a try on a practice plate first of course.
Indeed I will have to replace some scrolls with leaf.

arnaud



arnaud

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Steve you were right, it is to small.
I transformed some scrolls to tendrils, but even then it is to small.
But it was a good experience.

I will try something else, and bigger

arnaud

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Arnaud

I've taken the liberty of taking your photo and making some suggestions.

But first a disclaimer.............these are my opinions only and others may, and will, think differently so it's only something else to add to the mix.

I’ve marked a few areas that you may wish to look at………..

Try and make your scrolls touch the border. It brings border and scroll together in one cohesive design. Otherwise when you start removing background it makes black gaps that don’t look all that good it makes the border and scroll/leaf work separated.

You have created some very open scroll work and there’s nothing wrong with that if that is what you want to achieve. But how are you going to fill those areas that I’ve marked with a question mark?? You are going to strike some major problems filling those areas. By having your scrolls touch one another this helps eliminate a lot of this problem.

Also look at the overall flow of the scrolls………a few appear to go against the flow of the design and may look better the other way around.

Just keep at it............Rome wasn't built in a day and you are coming along just fine


Cheers
Andrew

 

[canadian]

Arnaud,
That is Beautiful! You've really come along in the last while.
Keep up the good work.

Boris

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Andrew, thank you for taking the time to examine design.

First let me say this design is not finished, as far as I understand what you say about open scrolls, are that the ones without leaf? In that case they are not drawn yet as I think I will start all over again.

Making the scrolls touch the border and one another I did not notice until now. Tanks for this tip. Indeed it will look better when they touch each other and the background is removed.

The scrolls that point the wrong direction, I see. But is it an option to transform these scrolls in leaf or tendrils? Or do they even then point al in the same direction to have a flow?

I will make another design and I will take your advice and tips with it.

arnaud

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Arnaud

What I mean by “open scroll work†is the big gaps between the scrolls. Trying to fill them with the style of leaves that you are doing will be nearly impossible. By having the scrolls touch each other it will make the job a lot easier for you.

Your scroll backbones are everything in the design. It is the foundation of your design and dictates the direction and flow of everything else that grows from it. If the foundation is not correct, then you will be fighting with the design every step of the way. The reverse is also true. If your scroll backbones/foundation is correct then everything else becomes a lot easier.

Scrolls pointing in the wrong direction……….No. it’s not an option to turn them into a leaf or tendril………….if it looks wrong, then it is wrong, and will always look wrong no matter what you do with it. (a black cat is still a black cat no matter what you call it)

At this stage focus all your energy on getting that scroll layout/structure correct. That is the basis and foundation of the design. This could take several drawings and re-working of the drawings. It’ll frustrate the hell out of you but it gets a bit easier the more you do it.

When you start filling in the leaves you’ll probably add or subtract to some of the scrolls as you strike unforeseen areas that are tricky to fill ………. But if your foundation of the design is good…………. then it’s not a problem.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Andrew,

I have both Ron’s books, studying them means also making designs.
I could read them a thousand times and still make the same mistakes, unless I give it a lots of tries.

So before I refine this sketch, is it better than al I did before?
To me it looks much better, I have taken your advices with it.
I hope I’m not wrong.

I drawn this on calque paper with a 0,5mm pencil 6H, so it did not look very black but I used some filters in PhotoShop.



arno

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Arnaud

Yes, you'll give it lots of tries and then some. Don't worry, everyone goes through this stage as it really is the hardest aspect of engraving and can be one of the most rewarding but frustrating. The cutting is easy compared to the design side of things. But like anything you do in life after about a trillion goes at it and everything will start falling into place. Sometimes a packet of cigarettes and a bottle of whiskey can help as well

The design is OK and heading in the right direction..........but there are a few things that you need to look at.

The first is the main line..........it has virtually become a straight line which is something that you don't want. Try breaking it up or curving it more.

The second is the scrolls are all the same so therefore look a bit boring and monotonous. Try having some facing up and down. Up, down,up, down and so on.

You'll need more of a gap on the inside of some of your scrolls to accommodate the leaves in some areas (the gap between the backbone and head of the scroll) but that generally can be refined a bit later sometimes.

Your point of origin for the scroll...........perhaps try utilizing a screw hole for this.

Keep drawing thumbnail drawings without leaves to see all the scroll variations you can come up with.

I'm a bit loath to draw alternatives for you as then it sets you on my path and way of thinking. It would be better for you to just keep exploring the possibilities for the design. You will learn a lot more that way.

You're doing great...........with each drawing and cuttings comes a greater understanding of what your doing so just keep it going and you'll be fine.

Cheers
Andrew