Sterling Silver Signet Ring - Annealing

[bildio]

I ordered an inexpensive ($14.48) sterling silver signet ring to practice stone setting & engraving. I plan to set a 2 mm stone in one corner and engrave a monogram in the remaining space.

Do I need to anneal the ring for the stone setting?

Do I need to anneal the ring for the engraving?

 

[Brian Marshall]

What, precisely, have you got? Is is it a casting, fabrication or die struck?

In silver - any of them should engrave easily without annealing - but the fabricated from sheet or die struck versions will be crisper.

There are also over a dozen new alloys of "sterling" now being flogged... ????


Brian

 

[GTJC460]

Most likely, not necessary.

 

[bildio]

What, precisely, have you got? Is is it a casting, fabrication or die struck?

In silver - any of them should engrave easily without annealing - but the fabricated from sheet or die struck versions will be crisper.

There are also over a dozen new alloys of "sterling" now being flogged... ????

Brian

Thanks for the replies.

It's a casting. I'll do it without annealing. It'll be a while before I attempt since I need a lot of practice. I'd like to try gold, after the silver.

 

[Willem Parel]

Maybe you first can cut another less important casting piece, sometimes castings cutting smooth without problem and sometimes the casting is a bit brittle.
So you can´t be sure how your signet ring will cut (it depends on the quality of the casting) but you can get the feeling how it is to cut casted stuff.
In my opinion, annealing isn´t necessary.

 

[Brian Marshall]

Ummmm, I don't think it's possible to anneal most precious metal castings? They normally go from liquid to solid to quench...

(unless it's white gold or one of the other new fancy alloys, that I know nothing about)


B.

 

[GTJC460]

Ummmm, I don't think it's possible to anneal most precious metal castings? They normally go from liquid to solid to quench...

(unless it's white gold or one of the other new fancy alloys, that I know nothing about)


B.

I anneal castings all the time! Heat to dull red and quench. Nothing to it.

As far as changing the way a graver will react to the metal is really inconsequential.

The biggest issue with castings is porosity. No matter how good you are at casting, they all have some to varying degrees of noticablity.

The largest portion of my business is custom high end jewelry with 90% of the hundreds of pieces I make annually being cast by me. I've got my castings down to a science with very little issues of porosity. However, there are certain characteristics that one can see under very high power magnification.

For instance when engraving or setting with a highly polished carbide graver on a good casting, I notice very small pinpoints in the cuts. However at minimal magnification or to the naked eye they are invisible.

Annealing the piece will not affect porosity issues. It will only soften the metal.

 

[Brian Marshall]

Why would you do that? The casting is as soft as it's gonna get when it goes through the quench bucket after the cast!

(Unless its' some new alloy that hardens upon quenching?)


B.


And yeah, I've done a wee bit of casting in my time... Even owned a small trade casting house for 5 years - as well as a refinery.

 

[GTJC460]

Brian. It totally depends on the casters technique. Yes if you quench a casting while still red hot it will be dead soft or pretty darn close to it.

However, the longer the casting is allowed to cool before quenching the harder the casting will be. Essentially if the casting is allowed to cool to below red hot state, a sort of "heat treatment" occurs hardening the metal.

Here's an article by United Precious Metals explaining this effect in nickle white gold alloys, however it really is applicable to all precious metals. http://www.unitedpmr.com/excessive_hardness_in_nickel_white_gold_investment_castings.php

I'm not trying to start a pi$$ing match here, but you stated precious metals castings can not be annealed. Those are your words, which are absolutely not true.

The degree to whether the hardness will change is the issue. I personally allow my castings to cool for about 10-12 minutes before quenching. Therefore my castings are harder than ones that are quenched while red hot.

 

[bildio]

I want to set a 2 mm stone in one of the top corners of the signet ring. I made a hole for the stone using a pilot drill, bud bur, & setting bur. It was hard to drill, but I finally got it done. I then tried using a burnisher to move metal over the stone to hold it in place. The metal will not move. So, I think I should anneal the ring to soften the silver. I contacted Rio Grande, & their tech confirmed that it's okay to anneal the ring.

Questions:
1. Do I have to anneal the whole ring or can I concentrate on getting the area around the stone hole to turn red?
2. Do I have to harden the ring after I'm done? I'd only do this after checking if the stone can withstand heating.

 

[GTJC460]

To anneal just heat around the whole ring gently to bring to dull red color. Then quench while red hot.

Silver transfers heat readily so it's pretty difficult to just get one area hot on a small object like a ring. This is why most jewelers really struggle with sizing silver rings containing heat sensitive stones.

 

[bildio]

To anneal just heat around the whole ring gently to bring to dull red color. Then quench while red hot.

Quench while dull red hot?

 

[GTJC460]

Absolutely!

Where in MD are you located? If you aren't too far away, I would be willing to give you some pointers. You can private message me if you are more comfortable with that.

 

[bildio]

Bert,

I'm in Havre de Grace.

I'll give it a try, & let you know how I make out.

It'll be a couple of days before I try to anneal the ring. I ran into another issue which I need to deal with first. The stone is 2 mm, & I used a setting bur that was supposed to be 2.1 mm. It turns out that the bur is 2.26 mm. Too large. So, I'm going to set a larger stone. I ordered a 2.5 mm stone & 2.5 mm setting bur. I'm waiting for delivery.

Thanks for your help.

Bill

 

[Gemsetterchris]

Are you sure it`s silver & not steel?
Can`t figure why your having trouble drilling or moving metal, silver is soft as butter.

You really don`t need to anneal a silver ring for any reason.
Double check the material.......

It`s a $14 ring, whats to lose .

 

[silverchip]

If it is silver I like salmon pink in a low light.Just drop it into cold water.

To anneal just heat around the whole ring gently to bring to dull red color. Then quench while red hot.

Silver transfers heat readily so it's pretty difficult to just get one area hot on a small object like a ring. This is why most jewelers really struggle with sizing silver rings containing heat sensitive stones.

 

[Gemsetterchris]

I personally only use ball burs, they are a lot cheaper & easier to handle.
Setting burs are a good idea but don't work well enough for professional use.

 

[GTJC460]

I personally only use ball burs, they are a lot cheaper & easier to handle.
Setting burs are a good idea but don't work well enough for professional use.

I do the same thing.

Also agree the silver should be really soft. Even when it's work hardened its still soft stuff.

 

[golden forge]

Bill, what type of setting are you trying to do? For most Pav`e or bead settings I use ball burrs, heads or hand built crowns, I will use 90, 60, or 45 degree burrs depending on the crown and cut of the stone. About the only time I use my setting burrs are for making tube type bezels or for starting a seat in heavy bezels for faceted stones, and then I will finish the seat by hand. As a general rule I keep a brass slide gauge with my burrs and measure each one before I use them, I know how frustrating it is to find out the seat you cut is too big for the stone. If the burrs I have are not the same size as the stone I will go to the closest size smaller, and slowly enlarge the seat to fit.
As for the silver, you have a lot of good advise posted above.
David.


Golden Forge Custom Designs

 

[Gemsetterchris]

The thing about burs is..if you want a "2mm" hole, you drill down with a Sharp 2mm ball bur halfway. Abit less? Do so.
You can't drill a 2mm hole with a blunt 2mm ball bur it makes you take a too big drill to compensate.
If you use a setting bur it has to be dead straight, great idea ..but c'mon who's dead eye dick
Ball bur wins, as stated above..use smaller & work up & *Always* keep aware if your 2mm drill is actually 1.5mm cos It's knackered & you think you need a 3 mm.
Done that & also put the right size in the right box afterwards