Round gravers

[FANCYGUN]

I heel my round gravers just like my other ones. I especially like using the rounds to fresh out roll die engraving markings on a gun.

 

[Kevin P.]

Could you please explain what roll die engraving is?
Thanks Kevin P.

 

[FANCYGUN]

Kevin
what I am calling roll die engraving is the factory markings put on a firearm such as the company name or the caliber. This is usuall very simple block style lettering either with or without serifs. They do not look hand cut

 

[Roger Bleile]

Kevin,

Roll die markings are often unevenly impressed due to wear of the die at the time of manufacture. Also if a gun is being restored, the die impressed lettering may be worn down due to sanding and polishing. Thus the die markings will need refreshing and the appropriate size of round graver is a good choice.

Another time that die impressed lettering requires a going over is when the lettering is being inlayed with wire. A tutorial on this by Leonard Francolini can be found here: http://www.engravingforum.com/album.php?albumid=252

RB

 

[qndrgnsdd]

Kevin: I use no hell on my round gravers, but I am not making lines, I am using them like a chip carving gouge.

 

[ken dixon]

Thanks Roger for the link, that is a very good tutorial.
Ken

 

[rod]

Hi Rod-

I had a couple questions/concerns about making round gravers from bullet tapered round stock.

First- this method unavoidably makes the heel/trailing surface bigger than the cutting face. Within limits, this would create an acceptable/desirable burnishing effect as the larger radius follows the cut, but i'm guessing at some point- particularly on deeper cuts and/or tighter curves- this could become problematic. a very long, gradual bullet taper would minimize this problem, but would also make the heel angle very shallow- taking away some of those advantages. what's your experience with this?

Second- how do you maintain a consistent tool size when every time you sharpen the radius gets bigger? you're essentially creating a conic section when you grind the face and the farther down the (bullet tapered) cone you go, the bigger the face gets. so especially for something like lettering that requires consistent line widths, how do you manage this effect?

thanks-

Mitch,

I do take your point here, clearly lettering with a round will require consistent size, and I confess that I have been using rounds mostly in silver bright cutting and variations of "flare" cutting.

You describe the geometry variations with resharpening very clearly, and I agree.

For consistent width, I would use rounds made in the manner of John B's carbide round stock glued into 3/32 square brass tubing as obtained in hobby shops or hardware stores. I buy from Enco.com lengths of small diameter carbide round, nick and snap off a short length and super glue it into the 3/32 square brass tube which gives a nice shank to be held by your graver handle ( push or power). Enco will supply round carbide rod down to about .040 inch ( one mm). Obviously this cylindrical round will maintain even width when sharpened on the front face.

I still like using a diamond paste loaded buffing cloth wheel to add some underside heel as that will allow you to generate the polished heel and lift angle that is comfortable for you. Of course, once the heel is polished onto the underside, the front face edge has been dulled, so needs to be crispened again with a few second of front face touch up.

However, Mitch, I humbly defer to your wider knowledge and experience.

best

Rod

 

[mitch]

thanks Rod-

i guess like so many things, this trick works really slick for some stuff and not so much for others (that helps explain my tool collection- because you gotta have the EXACT right tool for every job, right?). i'd imagine it's particularly good for bright-cutting, where the fat polished heel really burnishes the cut.

i like the idea of mounting round stock in a square tube. that would also allow consistent indexing in a sharpening fixture. what do you use for glue that holds up to the impact & vibration?

 

[Kevin P.]

Thanks Fancy, now I know.
Kevin P.

 

[Kevin P.]

Thanks Fancy and thanks Roger for that link.
Rod I had the same question as Mitch and beginner novice or pro we all come up with interesting technique and advice. The range of experience on this site is what ( should say, one of the things) makes it so good.
I haven't met L. Francolini; but I understand he's a neighbor. Is he the guy who was an engraver for Colt?
Thanks
Kevin P.

 

[Kevin P.]

Mitch, I find Locktite to be consistently superior
On the other hand Hughes 220 & 330 two part epoxies are terrific.
While I'm on this topic there is Epoxy.com which will formulate according to your needs.
Epoxies are definitely "depends on what you have in mind".
Kevin

 

[Kevin P.]

Roger I went to the link and answered my own question.
Thanks, Kevin

 

[rod]

Mitch and Kevin,

The John B small graver is very useful for rapid graver making and the point may be ground to any kind of shape....round, square, flat, etc. The idea is that the carbide round is as long as you need to go right down the square brass tube to the very bottom so that the push, or blow is transmitted right back to the cutting tip. Carbide rods from Enco are so inexpensive that it costs only cents to have the carbide round full length, and sticking out proud of the brass at the cutting end by about 8 mm. Super glue will do the job just fine. It sets glass hard and rigid. If you are gluing in a really thin carbide round, a size that is loose inside the square brass tube, then, when horizontal, place the round so it lies against an internal corner, that way it will be in line with the tube axis, but off center. Now add a little glue to tack it in place. Then smear a little baking soda onto the bottom of the brass tube and touch the baking soda with a little glue, it will instantly harden to marble and seal the bottom of the brass. Now turn the tool vertical and pour glue down into the tube to fill up empty internal space, and the whole tool is rigid and strong. Now sharpen.

I do concede there are jobs, and hard steel materials, that want more force to engrave than could be relied upon with a round bit, so indeed our traditional graver cross section of narrow rectangular cross section will always be a much stiffer tool and indispensable for some jobs.

Rod

 

[FANCYGUN]

These little drill rod gravers soldered into brass tubing work out great for little undercutting chisels for inlay work. I even have some that chuck up into metal handles that I hammer with.
John B comes through again :clapping:

 

[Kevin P.]

Good info Rod
A thought came to me while reading your post. Low temp silver solder might work well to secure the carbide round.
I have not tried this yet; but it may be a good alternative.
Kevin

 

[KCSteve]

I mostly use 1/16" rod (often cut off aircraft drill bit) and for that I just use a small punch to put dimples in on two adjacent sides of the square tubing. That keeps the rod from sliding any further in. Add a drop of super glue to the rod, insert to the stop and let it set for a few minutes. I know I've seen / read several people doing the same thing. I like this method because it's fast, cheap, and easy to do.

Rod - I'd forgotten about using baking soda with the glue to make a solid plug - thanks for the reminder!

I suppose another way to do this would be to carefully suck a small amount of epoxy up into the square tubing to set the rod into. Might be safest to use a piece of clear tubing between the brass and your mouth so you don't get epoxy in your mouth!