On Pricing Your Work.

[pilkguns]

Was talking to John Rohner the other day and he told me this great story. Seems a guy came up to Len Brownell, and said, “Mr. Brownell, would you like at my scope rings?.â€￾ So he did. Then the guy says, “Don’t you think my rings work just as good as yours, and are as pretty as yours? But I sell mine for less than half as much as what your sell yours for, what do you think of that?â€￾

To which Len Brownell replied, “Fella ought to know what his work is worthâ€￾.

 

[richard hall]

Not even the great Mark Twain, could have said it any better !!

 

[ddushane]

I hear what you guys are saying but it's hard to figure out where to start on the pricing. I'm not coming out making any money if you figure the time for layout and engraving. But I know I will eventually. I don't want to cheat my family, If I'm going to stay out in the shop to engrave or build a knife and not be about to spend time with them, it ought to be worth something. But decide what that is worth without take advantage of the customer is the hard part. Where's the balance? And I'm sure it's different for everyone. Just my thougths

Dwayne

 

[Dave London]

Good Quote
Scott to you have a mint julip to go with the cool hat:thumbs up:

 

[leroytwohawks]

Well Dwayne, in looking at your knifes and a couple you had the bolsters engraved I would say at least add $150 to the cost of the knife for the style scroll work your putting on the bolster. I see some engravers adding from $200 to $400 more for some of the more detailed scroll and some with gold inlay. I know most hand jewelery engravers charge around $75 per side on rings like wedding bands.

And BTW I love you knifes!!!

Kevin

I hear what you guys are saying but it's hard to figure out where to start on the pricing. I'm not coming out making any money if you figure the time for layout and engraving. But I know I will eventually. I don't want to cheat my family, If I'm going to stay out in the shop to engrave or build a knife and not be about to spend time with them, it ought to be worth something. But decide what that is worth without take advantage of the customer is the hard part. Where's the balance? And I'm sure it's different for everyone. Just my thougths

Dwayne

 

[Jim Sackett]

I wish I knew more about pricing nowdays.

Jim

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Dwayne

what that is worth without take advantage of the customer is the hard part

The best advice I can give you is don't ever think like that.............There is no such thing as taking advantage of your customer!!!

You set the price...............they either pay, or not. It is that simple.

You know what you need out of each job to keep food on the table, pay the bills and take a holiday once a year plus put your kids through school. Factor all that into your work.......... Then charge accordingly.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[SamW]

If I had to do my life over again the only thing I would change would be to charge more!

 

[Brian Hochstrat]

I would say at least add $150 to the cost of the knife for the style scroll work your putting on the bolster. I see some engravers adding from $200 to $400 more for some of the more detailed scroll and some with gold inlay.

You must be joking, it costs more to prep the knife than that, let alone engrave it.

One thing I think people fail to account for when figuring out their pricing structure, at least when working in a collector based market, like knives or guns, is their place in the market. Collectors buy with investment in mind, they expect the item they bought to appreciate. So when you first jump into, say knives, what you are charging to just scrape by financially, may be to high to get the ball rolling. Once you get the name recognition and your work is more sought after, you can then bump up the price to where you are earning a better living. However that is the long haul approach and you have to take your lumps along the way, but it does get better. I know of a couple examples of engravers who took a quicker route and who got top dollar in the beginning for their work (collectors took a chance on them), but it was a short lived career, once the knives would'nt sell for what the collectors had in them, that was the end of it. So do your homework and be wise about your pricing, it is a double edged sword.

 

[Christopher Malouf]

So very true Brian ... and then sometimes, "name recognition" has little to do with true merit. If that were not the case, then higher quality work would always fetch more than less quality work regardless of who did it or the canvas it was on. Pleasing a collector can be far different from pleasing a customer. While collectors generally put their money on the safe bet, there's always a customer for everything else. The disparity between what's hot and what's not is no different than the disparity between perceived value and true value. I am always amazed to see a customer (or a collector) buy something overpriced simply because it is. (I can say with all confidence that I have not experienced that ) That goes for just about any product, by any business in every market. This is precisely what makes "pricing" so difficult and sometimes totally confusing even when it isn't.

 

[pilkguns]

Always remember, the customer is paying for what you know, not what you do.

 

[ddushane]

a lot of things to think about, it helps to hear all of yalls comments. I've been getting $350. for two bolsters. I guess it's about right.

Dwayne

 

[leroytwohawks]

Dwayne: I was not trying to under sell your engraving! I have a friend who is a well known engraver from whom I was basing part of my pricing from, and he has said himself that he needs to charge more as some of his knifes that he's sold to collectors for $500 to $600 have been resold to other collectors for 4 times and more over his price!!!

Kevin

a lot of things to think about, it helps to hear all of yalls comments. I've been getting $350. for two bolsters. I guess it's about right.

Dwayne

 

[Sam]

• 
  In the luxury market of engraving you can raise prices but will devalue your work if you lower them.

• 
  Nothing is forever, including the backlog you think is going to last forever.

• 
  Be humble and grateful for collectors who are willing to pay you for your artwork.

• 
  At the same time don't be ashamed to charge a fair price for it.

• 
  Don't charge more than your work is worth simply because you can.

• 
  You might be riding the crest today, but there are kids picking up tools for the first time that will leave you in the dust in a few short years.

• Arrogance and a big ego only make you look foolish.

 

[leroytwohawks]

There is a young man 29years old here in PA well at least young to me, name Jason some of you may know, that is just a incredible engraver, I just hope to be half that good someday.:big grin:

Kevin

• 
  You might be riding the crest today, but there are kids picking up tools for the first time that will leave you in the dust in a few short years.

• Arrogance and a big ego only make you look foolish.

 

[ddushane]

Kevin, I didn't think of what you said in a negative way at all, I agree with all that is said here, and what Sam just added are things to live by. I don't want to charge more than my work is worth, but I do want a fair price for it. At the place I'm at right now, I know it probably takes me a lot longer than most of you. I'm probably making about $10.00 per hour at this rate : ( But it'll get better as my speed and technique improve. Thanks for all the comments. This has been a good post for me.

Dwayne

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Here's an excerpt from Bradney W. Simon's Book "Running Your Shop Without It Running You".
This book is geared for the Jeweler but most of what is in the book can be applied to almost any business. It's about $40 bucks and available at most Jewelry supply houses. It could really help someone in need of structuring their prices. The book has copy rights, but I sure Bradney won't mind one page to tell others how good it is.

 

[Sam]

Yes, I know Jason and he is a very talented engraver and a good example of what I'm referring to.

 

[Kevin Scott]

Pricing can make or break a business and I don't think most people put enough thought into it. I think your pricing has to pass two tests. One, does it provide the income you need to stay in business assuming everything else goes to plan? Surprising that alot of peoples pricing on some jobs does not pass this test because people do not know what a job really costs them in total time. A watchmaker can generally figure that 30% of his work time is not producing income, even when he has a backlog of work. So he has to adjust his bench time hourly rate accordingly. I have timed certain jobs and have been surprised how long it can take when you add the time dealing with the customer, getting parts, delivery, and getting paid.
I think it is a good idea to actually log-keep track of where your time goes in a week. That way you might see where you need to get more efficient or raise some prices even if you end up losing that work.
The second test is whether or not your pricing is acceptable in the marketplace so you can do enough volume to make your business plan work.
What Sam said is important to keep in mind. Also should regularly recheck your pricing whether or not things are going good or not. Kevin Scott

 

[James Roettger]

If one googles goldsmith, bench jeweler, gunsmith, watchmaker, etc. it is possible to find what the average wage in your area is for such positions. The Department of Labor Statistics provides census data that states what such positions earn as an employee. When you're working alone for years on end this can be a useful reference to see if you are in the ball park. As a U.S. average these positions pay about $23 an hour x 7 or 8 hour day. Most stores resell this time for about $75.00 an hour to the client. As a sole proprietor you may not need the full $75.00 to make a good rate but as stated above about 1/3 of your time will not end up at the work bench and this support time needs to be factored into your rate. I don't know about everyone else but I try to base my pay day on 4 to 5 hours of actual hard bench time. Anything extra is a bonus. If you use a stop watch to time yourself it's likely to be less than it seems.