Help, please: New at engraving , need help getting started with a small budget.

[Beathard]

I use a laser printer and acetone. Some use Chinese White to lay a background and then draw with a pencil. Problem is all of these rub off. You learn to not drag your hand across your layout.

I do scribe about 50% of my layouts. I use a scribe they gave me in a training class. But just about anything with a metal point will leave a scratch where the line should be. I have even used the metal point from an architects compass and a finishing nail.

 

[Beathard]

With the seeing where you cut problem, try looking at the place the bur is coming up. Try to keep that bur consistent in width and direction. You can, once you figure out the geometry, alter the graver to help with visibility.

 

[dlilazteca]

New update

Got a shipment of goodies in the mail.

I got a lindsay graver template , some practice plates , and some scroll templates

got my first scroll done today!

This was the very first time i have used the hammer and chisel , so be nice haha.

One thing i will mention is that i did the whole thing on 1 graver because i was all the way outside on my post vice , so im assuming most of this is done on a dull graver

What's scroll templates are you talking about.

Carlos De La O III

 

[Beathard]

Carlos, He's talking about the same universal one you have.

 

[dlilazteca]

Carlos, He's talking about the same universal one you have.

I don't have any scroll templates... That's why I was asking to see how he likes the ones he bought and where he bought them

Carlos De La O III

 

[Beathard]

Oh. Sorry.

 

[jzknives]

They sell it on GRS tools , the green ones

http://www.grstools.com/patterns-transfers-and-more/022-196.html

 

[jzknives]

I like them but im not sure if the other template thing GRS sells is better.

The directions are not good however. But it does come with a pen and mechanical pencil.

 

[dlilazteca]

Is this the other one you're talking about

http://www.grstools.com/patterns-transfers-and-more/001-713.html

Carlos De La O III

 

[dlilazteca]

Oh. Sorry.

Np

Carlos De La O III

 

[Beathard]

Although these templates seem like a good idea. A better investment would be either a good book (http://www.grstools.com/books/layout-design-and-drawing/022-199-H.html) or a good video (http://www.grstools.com/dvds-and-videos/graver-and-layout-techniques/023-103.html). In the long run the knowledge will pay more dividends.

 

[jzknives]

Is this the other one you're talking about

http://www.grstools.com/patterns-transfers-and-more/001-713.html

Carlos De La O III

Yes that's the one I didn't try

 

[Mike Fennell]

While the 116 universal point is a useful tool, I would recommend concentrating on the 90-degree square graver in the beginning.

I believe you will find it easier to get consistent depth and width of cut with a 90 or with an onglette. When you have mastered these, then you can enjoy experimenting with the effects that can be achieved with other geometries. Right now you are learning tool control and feel. Keep it simple in the beginning.

 

[mrthe]

Mike give you a good advise,is not easy at the beginning control de 116/120 V graver,is better start with a 90V

 

[jzknives]

I after messing about some more I have a question.

Hand push engraving on mild steel.

Is this only supposed to make deepish scratches more than deep engravings that a chisel can make?

I ask because I would have to use signifigant force to even attempt to get real engravings going with a hand powered graver. Enough force that I'm worried I will either break the graver right in two , or enough force to have absolutely no control and even approaching dangerous that I might get stabbed if it slips.

Am I doing something wrong? Is hand engraving even a reasonable thing to do on steel? Or is it more of a chisel and hammer affair?

Somebody in the thread mentioned that you can hand engrave on steel so I just want more clarity

 

[Beathard]

Your graver needs to be very sharp. I'm push graving on Stainless Steel. I can get deep enough to be yelled at by people in the know.

 

[jzknives]

Your graver needs to be very sharp. I'm push graving on Stainless Steel. I can get deep enough to be yelled at by people in the know.

could you maybe shoot a video so i can see?

it boggles the mind

 

[Kevin Scott]

Hand pushing Stainless Steel:

If you click onto my name and look at my picture album you will see a Stainless Steel buck knife, model 525, that I did entirely by hand pushing. (sorry that the picture is not in better focus).

These Buck knives are considered by the people of the engraving forums to easy and nice to cut. But I think they are air power people that are saying that. I found that they are about at the limit of what I can push engrave. And definitely not easy. And definetely could not do it all day long. Had to go over the wide cuts multiple times. Used a 90 width first, then for the wider cuts went over them with a 95 width. With a 5 degree higher face than I normally use. 50 to 55 degrees. And I don't use a parallel heel.

Air power people might think there is not any real working difference between 90 and 95 faces. But for push power there is a big difference. 105 degree face is about my limit for even soft metals. The wider the face, the deeper you have to cut. With push power there is a limit to how much metal you can plow through and maintain control, and without killing your hand and joints. This has been my experience. Others may have different experiences.

Have done some other stainless steel that was easier to cut than the buck 525 knives.

 

[silverchip]

I have managed 416 stainless by hand,but it is tough.Still better than304 ect.

 

[Southern Custom]

Deepish scratches suggests a lack of control. Soft mild steel is no problem to cut by hand, but I don't even mess with that and I've been cutting by hand for over 20 years. One usually develops control starting with softer metals for the first couple of years and as you learn the limits of your ability and what the graver will and will not take, progress to harder metals. And you can injure yourself trying to work beyond your limitations. Early in my career, I put a square graver completely through my left hand. Thought I was ok after I cleaned it up only to realize I couldn't feel my left thumb. Took a year to get back about 80% of the feeling.
As for the scroll templates. They'll give you a good backbone but it is still a crutch. You'll still have to learn how to construct a proper scroll. And you can't cut what you can't draw. Take it slowly and spend 80% of your time with a pencil in hand. It will pay off in the long run.
Layne