My grind for flare cutting

[Mike Cirelli]

Christian got me messing around with flare cutting from watching his video. I needed quick cutting methods for some projects. Flare cutting made to most sense for them. He shows a flat with a bit of a crazy grind that works well. But I couldn't just except grinding a flat like that, I always have to tinker. So here's what I came up with. It works for me. I Attached a bit of my putzing with the grind.
Using a square 110° graver I grind a 45° face with a 10° right angle, the right heel is ground at 40° and the left side ground at 42.5°. This puts a parallel heel to the off angle face. The length of the heel depends on how deep and wide you want to go with it. You may have to play with it for whats comfortable for you.
Anyone who wants can use this grind. You may even come up with something better.

 

[Christian DeCamillis]

Mike,

The cuts look great! I will give this grind a try it makes a lot of sense.

Chris

 

[Andrew Biggs]

HI Mike

Looks good

Why all the different angles???? What is the advantage in doing that??

If you use something like a 120 or 110 square graver (or flat depending on your choice of graver) with either parallel or normal heel.........and roll the graver as you go. Then isn't the effect the same.???

Cheers
Andrew

 

[monk]

a beautiful job, for sure. first you invented "cirelli sauce". which i use to this day. now this grind.
any way you could take a square of wood and do a rough workup of your new grind ? you know, so we could see what it looks like enlarged. or at least a detailed drawing.

 

[Beathard]

Good point Andrew. I'm confused as well.

 

[Willem Parel]

I am with Monk and Beathard but the result of the cutting is awsome, thanks for showing.

 

[Mike Cirelli]

The off set face really cuts smooth and makes it easy to roll the graver. You can go from a fine hairline to a wide bright cut effortlessly. I use flats often, this graver gives less drag. It's not meant to replace anything. This graver is for cutting from the point to the right side of the graver only. If a person is left handed he would have to reverse the geometry. I'll try and post some pictures of the graver. This style graver was used for script lettering, but now here's some angles. Give it a try It's free. Some may like it some may not.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Looks great Mike, me too I was playing a bit with Chris's geometry like he showed in the video. However, I grinded something similar out of a 110° graver. That way you can cut both ways what sometimes is needed when back cutting.
Anyway, you way adding the leaves sure looks great and I will have to give it a try too.
arnaud

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Mike

I still don't quite understand any advantage to making all the different angles that you have described.

A normal graver as I described above will do the same from fine hairline to wide cut simply by rolling the graver, keeping the heel short and lifting the wrist on tight turns to prevent drag (or minimise it). Rolling the graver is only a matter of rolling the wrist and the cuts remain smooth.......and it doesn't matter if you are left or right handed or making your cuts from left to right or visa versa.

Cheers
Andrew

PS...and before anyone asks, yes, I gave it a try and noticed no discernible difference other than extra grinding on the graver. If you pick up a bog standard graver (say a 120) then you can go from really delicate single point engraving to heavy duty flare cut using the same tool.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Andrew, as far as I understand the advantage of the grinding, is something like the rounded heel, at least that is how I did understand Chris tool. And sure one can polish a curved heel using the powerhone and dual angle, but I have a yellow rubber wheel that is able to polish carbide as well. So like Chris, I do the grinding under the microscope and can easily make a rounded polished heel. And sure that makes a lot of difference and cuts real bright. The other thing, whether a flat or V graver, is having both heels a bit longer and curved, you won't have any drag.
Polishing a parallel heel with that rubber wheel is quite easy, and perhaps a non parallel can work too, but I think it wont cut that bright for a wide leaf.

arnaud

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Andrew I'm glad you gave it a try. On this I use a little longer heel. If you use say a 120° graver with a micro heel and roll it for a deep wide cut it's going to drag pretty good. For me this cuts a lot differant than a 110° graver I would use for line cutting. I guess this isn't for you, but I like it. The heel angles are to compensate for the off set face, if not you won't get a parallel heel. This graver for me cuts quite nice very bright wide cuts and easy to control.

 

[Tira]

Mike, I think I know the answer to this because we made similar left and right hand tools in Alexandre's stone setting class, but I have a clarification. Just to be clear: the right edge of the tool leads or trails the left edge by the 10 degrees? Thanks!

 

[Douglas]

However you made your gravers, it turn out very nice.

Maybe you can post a simple sketch to discibe the grind pattern

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Here's some pictures. Tira you're right the left side of the graver dosen't do much unles the graver point is at 0. You can lay this graver on it's side and pretty much cut like a flat. A standard ground face won't do that. It'll want to dig in and go toward the left.

 

[Douglas]

Thanks, a picture is worth a thousand words

 

[Willem Parel]

Ah, I did read all is written, but now finaly it comes to my brains....thank you all for the attempts and especialy Mike for the picture....

 

[BrianPowley]

Mike, even though I have a lifetime of experience with flat gravers this works great for me. I made a tool before you posted the pictures and I see my heel isn't as long as yours---that would explain the slight heel drag I was getting.
Over the years I've tried several gravers with offset faces and they only worked "so-so". The parallel heel is what makes it tick.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[Christian DeCamillis]

Mike,

This is a definite improvement over what I made for a few reasons. But one advantage any graver that has a leading cutting edge like this is that unlike a flat the force on the tool is spread out because it doesn't cut all at the same time as a flat would. this will mean that you will be able to cut much smoother. and have a lot less chatter in the cuts.

the other advantage for flare cutting is that your starts and stops will be easier and smoother because again when you stop abruptly and exit the cut by popping it out it will come out easier with less force and leave a cleaner exit. a lot of the cuts in this style of cutting is like script lettering and the classic grind for that was a 90 degree with about a 5 degree angle making a leading edge just like Mikes tool and the flat i made.

Thanks for the pictures mike they will help anyone who chooses to try and use this easier to figure out.

Chris
..

 

[g.rohrbaugh]

Nice work Mike and thanks for posting!
Gary

 

[monk]

thanks, mike- now very clear !