Looking at a Sil-Air silent air compressor

[Donny]

I need to be able to run my hand piece (graver) with it and most will do that…I would also need to run a NSK Presto or GRS 850 high speed rotary tool. Just for background removal on knives, guns, and the like.
Which is the minimum model of the Sil-Air silent air compressors that will achieve this goal?
I have been using CO2 from a 20lb tank for the last 5 years. Just ready to make the jump. But I don't want to over buy this will be strictly for my engraving.

Donny

 

[mrthe]

Wich engraving system do you use? i use a 4 cilynder airbrush compressor and i'm able to run it, is not a Sil-air, is just a no oil compressor but is quite 55db and cheap, around 200/250$

 

[Marrinan]

I bought the Silentaire VAL-Air 50-24-AL operate my Gravermach, Lindsay classic, and 2 Ultra 850's. My Daughter and I share studio space. We also have a large, conventional air compressor in the machine portion of the shop where the machine tools are and the belt sanders, and bead blasters etc are located. Her studio room has a line running from the conventional compressor through a system of filters and valves including a dryer all mounted to the wall insider her studio. the Silentaire VAL-Air 50-24-AL runs my engraving bench. In her studio she has a separate storage tank for the cleaned and dried air. with a filters at the air adjustment controls. The large compressor is boxed in and draws air from outside through a vent so event it is pretty quite. Elaborate but works well for us. We have plenty of air power. Fred

 

[Artemiss]

From things I've read and people I've spoken to, Sil-Air compressors are pretty well thought of.

All the good named silent air compressors, such as Jun-Air, Wisp-Air, Sil-Air are, in theory, much the same, from a specification point of view.
Whilst I can't speak for Sil-Air specifically, I do have a 25ltr Jun-Air, single motor. I run a gravermax, a Palm control and an 850 rotary. The compressor can happily cope with these (running one at a time), but I did start having to limit my use with the 850 to no more than a minute at a time, even with a cooling fan directed at it, to avoid overheating. Basically the Jun-Air (and I suspect the others too) are set for a 50/50 run time. i.e, if it takes five minutes to charge the tank, in then needs to be off for five minutes to recover. Rotary's use an enormous amount of air.

If you're only using the rotary for short bursts a single motor, 25ltr tank will be fine. I think Andrews uses a smaller tank, without issue, but personally I wouldn't go smaller than 25 ltr if I had the choice.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of most standard, oil-less compressors. Although the difference between 40db (oiled) and 55db (oil-less) doesn't sound a lot, (normal workshop compressors are around 70-90db!!) I found it too noisy to tolerate in the same room. This is just my experience of the oil-less one, I tried.

I've just upgraded to a 3 motor Jun-Air with a 50 ltr tank, and it's wonderful. You can also pick them up 'relatively' cheap on eBay.

Good luck,

Jo

 

[Donny]

Wich engraving system do you use? i use a 4 cilynder airbrush compressor and i'm able to run it, is not a Sil-air, is just a no oil compressor but is quite 55db and cheap, around 200/250$

Mrthe,
I use the Lindsay Classic. The major reason I'd like to go with a compressor is the AIR needed to run the rotary tool. My Classic uses very little air to run for 8+ hours at a time.

Donny

 

[Donny]

From things I've read and people I've spoken to, Sil-Air compressors are pretty well thought of.

All the good named silent air compressors, such as Jun-Air, Wisp-Air, Sil-Air are, in theory, much the same, from a specification point of view.
Whilst I can't speak for Sil-Air specifically, I do have a 25ltr Jun-Air, single motor. I run a gravermax, a Palm control and an 850 rotary. The compressor can happily cope with these (running one at a time), but I did start having to limit my use with the 850 to no more than a minute at a time, even with a cooling fan directed at it, to avoid overheating. Basically the Jun-Air (and I suspect the others too) are set for a 50/50 run time. i.e, if it takes five minutes to charge the tank, in then needs to be off for five minutes to recover. Rotary's use an enormous amount of air

If you're only using the rotary for short bursts a single motor, 25ltr tank will be fine. I think Andrews uses a smaller tank, without issue, but personally I wouldn't go smaller than 25 ltr if I had the choice.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of most standard, oil-less compressors. Although the difference between 40db (oiled) and 55db (oil-less) doesn't sound a lot, (normal workshop compressors are around 70-90db!!) I found it too noisy to tolerate in the same room. This is just my experience of the oil-less one, I tried.

I've just upgraded to a 3 motor Jun-Air with a 50 ltr tank, and it's wonderful. You can also pick them up 'relatively' cheap on eBay.

Good luck,

Jo

Jo,
I will look into the models you have mentioned…I will also google liter = pounds Us OLDER U.S. guys still hold on to pounds and inches

Donny

 

[atexascowboy2011]

Don
I have a hospital air compressor as a backup. The only thing I don't care for is it has no tank, therefore runs constantly, but it IS a workhorse. There is one on fleabay now that I told Monk about, thinking maybe he could use it. Danged if HE doesn't have one, too. The last time I looked it was at 145.
Jeff

 

[dlilazteca]

http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?t=14799
Review of California air ultra quiet air compressor

Carlos De La O III

 

[Artemiss]

Bearing in mind that a compressor is one of the biggest (no pun intended) pieces of equipment you'll need, my advice would be to buy once, buy right. If you buy one without a tank, you will ALWAYS be looking to upgrade again asap. If you can afford to, get the correct one straight away, and you'll never need to worry about that part of your setup, in the future!

Also, based on what tank-less compressors are generally built for, I think you'll find that it won't be man-enough to run the 850 any sense.
As soon as you start dealing with air powered rotarys, you really do need a sensible compressor, rather than 'it'll do compressor'.

Jo

 

[mrthe]

I have try a Califirnia compressor not bad at sll,but, personally i think that is too much noise to have near the bench.

 

[monk]

I WAS GIVEN A NEW JUN-AIR STILL IN THE CRATE. works very well with the lindsay. aint tried any rotary work with mine. i use an older, larger unit for rotary work

 

[Southern Custom]

I talked to Barry Hands at the FEGA show and he was using a California Air compressor. Told me he had burned one up after around a year of really heavy use. Granted this was the smaller model. Said it had worked out well for him otherwise. I've been thinking about buying one or the larger 10 gallon tank models for the shop. If I got 5 years or so out of it I think it would be worth the price.
The last Sil Air Compressor I used got hot really quick and shut itself off. I think an extra fan would have been the way to go with it.
How has your Cal Air worked out for you Carlos. I know you've had it for a bit now.
Layne

 

[Donny]

Bearing in mind that a compressor is one of the biggest (no pun intended) pieces of equipment you'll need, my advice would be to buy once, buy right. If you buy one without a tank, you will ALWAYS be looking to upgrade again asap. If you can afford to, get the correct one straight away, and you'll never need to worry about that part of your setup, in the future!

Also, based on what tank-less compressors are generally built for, I think you'll find that it won't be man-enough to run the 850 any sense.
As soon as you start dealing with air powered rotarys, you really do need a sensible compressor, rather than 'it'll do compressor'.

Jo

I agree FULLY!!!! I bought a microscope on the cheap and have regretted it ever since (fixing that mistake soon as well) so I am going to buy a proven brand. The Sil-Air I was looking at was the TC-50 and at 40db thats pretty quiet.

Donny

 

[Barry Lee Hands]

I talked to Barry Hands at the FEGA show and he was using a California Air compressor. Told me he had burned one up after around a year of really heavy use. Granted this was the smaller model. Said it had worked out well for him otherwise. I've been thinking about buying one or the larger 10 gallon tank models for the shop. If I got 5 years or so out of it I think it would be worth the price.
The last Sil Air Compressor I used got hot really quick and shut itself off. I think an extra fan would have been the way to go with it.
How has your Cal Air worked out for you Carlos. I know you've had it for a bit now.
Layne

I have a GMC Syclone 6310, which is the same thing as a California, marketed under a different name, Tim Wells found it for me.
Also I have a silaire, that works, (barely) It was always difficult, I tried many filters, all of which required maintenance as the oil would make its way through the filter eventually.
Now it hardly works, has some problem with the on off pressure circuit.
I did burn up one GMC after a year or so of heavy use, but I usually burn up a conventional compressor every year or two.
I like the GMC, and would never buy a silaire again, as I could go through three or four GMCs or Californias, at the cost of one silaire, with no oil problems.
The Silaire is still the quietest, but with all the trouble I have had, I will take the GMC/ California.

 

[dlilazteca]

Layne

Its still working like a charm now remember guys this is sold buy at Amazon but make sure you buy from them not a 3rd party seller on Amazon second Home Depot also carries them(California brand) if mine were to burn out no problem its insured for 4 years through SquareTrade, you guys never thought of that one did you?

Buy it your wallet and your wife will love you.

Barry,

Mine keeps up perfectly well with the rotary handpiece It will turn on but I can continue to run it non stop and it keeps up. This is because of the larger pistons that are used, requires less full up time as others may not know compared to regular air compressors. How's your GMC holding up when you do that?





Carlos De La O III

 

[Donny]

I have a GMC Syclone 6310, which is the same thing as a California, marketed under a different name, Tim Wells found it for me.
Also I have a silaire, that works, (barely) It was always difficult, I tried many filters, all of which required maintenance as the oil would make its way through the filter eventually.
Now it hardly works, has some problem with the on off pressure circuit.
I did burn up one GMC after a year or so of heavy use, but I usually burn up a conventional compressor every year or two.
I like the GMC, and would never buy a silaire again, as I could go through three or four GMCs or Californias, at the cost of one silaire, with no oil problems.
The Silaire is still the quietest, but with all the trouble I have had, I will take the GMC/ California.

Thanks Barry!
So to take this one step further I am away from the family for the year up here in Washington state. Living in a studio apartment thats in the 580 sf range. I don't want the neighbors to complain so would one of the California quiet models work? say the http://www.amazon.com/California-Air-Tools-CAT-4610A-4-6-Gallon/dp/B00889ZYQ0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_3

Donny

 

[Barry Lee Hands]

Thanks Barry!
Living in a studio apartment thats in the 580 sf range. I don't want the neighbors to complain so would one of the California quiet models work? say the http://www.amazon.com/California-Air-Tools-CAT-4610A-4-6-Gallon/dp/B00889ZYQ0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_3

Donny

Donny, for that application, the silaire would be best.

 

[dlilazteca]

Donny

It is very simple get a decimal meter on your phone application you can find right away I would recommend turning up your radio slightly until you hit the decibel range that the California / GMC operate in then make a decision from there.

Carlos De La O III

 

[Artemiss]

The Sil-Air I was looking at was the TC-50 and at 40db thats pretty quiet.

Looking at the stats, I think the tank on the TC-50 (0.9gal / 3.5lts) is WAAAAAAAY to small to run an 850 rotary. In my experience, you need 25ltrs (5.5gal) at the very least. Even then you'll need to be careful when using the rotary. I know I keep harking on about the rotary thing, but many people don't appreciate just how much air they use, especially as they are so small.

If I did understand the stats correctly, and it does have less than a gallon tank, I will guarantee you'll be buying another within a very short time. It's just not up to the job. If it's just a Palm Control you're looking to run, it'll happily do the job, from what Paolo has told me.

Recommended:
Tank size: 25ltr (5.5gal) minimum
Noise: 40 db is lovely and quiet.
Airflow: 2.0 cfm is good (the 850 requires 1.35)
Pressure: Most 'proper' compressors will give a pressure of around 90psi plus. Graver machines / hand-pieces / rotary's require around 30-35psi, so you won't really have a problem there.

Another item I would say is an absolute necessity is a oil & water filter or filter/regulator (I think they're called coalescing in the U.S.). If you get even the smallest amount of oil in a Palm Control, you will spend more time cleaning it that you will engraving. And once the oils' in your airline... you have headaches ahead.

I'm afraid you can't skimp on this part either. Despite what some may say, a small cheapy airbrush filter regulator WILL NOT filter out sufficient oil from your air. A small amount of oil in the air is perfectly normal, although not desirable for engravers or paint sprayers. (Obviously, a lot of oil indicates problems with the compressor).
You require a filter which will filter 0.01 microns. Most cheap filters only really filter water, even though some claim to be oil as well. These only filter down to 0.5 which IS NOT good enough.

This is a UK link, but you get the idea... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150975326240?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I will be the first to admit that it hurt a lot to spend so much money on a simple filter/regulator, but like every decent piece of equipment I've purchased, the initial pain disperses very quickly once you realise it's exactly right for the job, and you've just saved yourself a lot of heartache down the line.

Jo

 

[Southern Custom]

I forgot you had a GMC Barry. That's another brand now to price shop for!
Given Carlos and Barry's experience it's not too hard for me to make the decision to go with a Cal Air. The CAT- 10020 10 gallon is only $400 bucks. I would think that using a monarch, or a Lindsay handpiece, it wouldn't cycle that much and with the piston size the refill shouldn't take long. As for indoor use, It wouldn't be hard to make a baffle to surround it. We did the same with a Husky 2hp compressor in my shop and cut the noise in half. We hung double thick packing blankets from the ceiling to surround the compressor. Allowing ample room for air circulation of course.
And everything said about the air turbine handpieces is dead on. They suck air like a vacuum cleaner.
Layne