Announcement: lindsay or grs

[mrthe]

Carlos you are free to do what you want if you considere that can be helpful go ahead !

i was just trying to say that if new engravers or newbies o like you want call they want read reviews about all the systems available in the market the Forum have a lot of info in it with opinions from all folks here,professionals or not.
Like you say :

I'm no expert and want my video to be as helpful to rookies as possible, remember that is who I want to address.

you are not an expert yet or a professional and maybe the review can cause the reverse effect in people without experience, all systems in the market are very good but from my point of view the best way in find what work best for you is try all in person, i have tryed all the systems in the market ( and i'm very far to be a professional or an expert too) and i can say you that maybe only try at the least is not enough the best will be have it in your workshop for some month to use they properly and see which one finally can be more useful for you , remember Engraving in general have a lot of applications, lettering, shading, sculpting ,bulino, bright cut, carving, stone setting and many more, what is better for one style maybe is not for other, if you don't have the knowledges with all this type of works maybe you can give some wrong info , if trying it in person is maybe not enough imagine try to make a comparative in a video without experience, just my opinion, but if you think that can be helpful go ahead and thank you to take the time to make it

 

[Sam]

Any such attempt to illustrate or compare the tools of this trade by a raw amateur is simply amusing to the working, professional, or Master Engraver. Likewise, we lived through the so-called "Tool Wars" and we truly understand the damage that can be done by such silliness. Moreover, we understand that amateur misinformation tends to run rampant and cause more and more confusion among that group of folks who really need professional advice and competent training when they are considering the values of one machine over the other. There are to many personal and skill variables in this kind of public experimentation for an amateur to approach.

Thank you Mike. That needed saying.

 

[dlilazteca]

Some have made good points, and I agree, but I don't see anyone else stepping up (I'm talking about the ones with experience), what are you waiting for? I could have used a video months ago and others years ago.



Carlos De La O III

 

[atexascowboy2011]

All the videos in the world will not help a person decide which is the better tool for that individual. Only hands on experience can do that.
The best thing to do just starting out, is to keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut.

 

[dlilazteca]

Yep, just leave it alone............ It causes way too many problems.

To each his own and no comment works really well

Cheers
Andrew

Andrew

Thanks for your reply, as is evident with COWBOY there are some that just cant handle a tool conversation and get all worked up. Why I will never understand, but there are some that are mature enough to have an educated and mature conversation, and some some that are willing to learn through videos, I am one that have seen plenty and have learned. Thanks to those who took up the first camera and started recording.

Over and Out...............................................................................

 

[guzzi]

Wow, well handled in a "forum mature" matter! Keep on cutting. jb

 

[zzcutter]

I for one am waiting to see this video. I have been going back and forth between several air powered tools. So it would be very interesting to see a comparison of these two tools side by side.

 

[Marrinan]

Carlos, Since I started this warning about tool wars I am going to jump in again with some thoughts. Your unboxing videos fun. It might be useful to compare what came in the box when you purchased your systems, What was and was not included, what you needed to buy extra, were the directions for assembling clear. You could even make informed comparisons of cost of the complete system that was ready to cut metal. Other things could include clarity of information you received from each of the four major players in engraving tools. You could expand into what accessories needed to be added to do that first project. Things like ways to hold your project, ways to finish a project etc. This type of information could really assist a potential buyer.

Problems and criticism will arise when you say YOU can cut better with this tool or YOU think because one company throws in a pre-sharpened graver you were found cutting better. I do not own an Enset at this time. I do not use my flex shaft anymore. I do not us a palm controlled anything. I own and use all the others. None of my tools have made me a better engraver. They have all helped me practice to be a better engraver by reducing and simplifying the learning curve. When I lay any of my tools down on the block with something clamped in it and a designed laid out and step on the peddle the tool simply falls on the floor. No matter how much I have spent on any tool no works happens when it is not in MY hand. The result is between me and the idea, All the rest are steps in the process. Fred

 

[dlilazteca]

Fred

Thank you for taking the time to reply although people might not know it I'm taking everybody's advice into account I was heading in the direction of what you just mentioned not what I prefer, not what I use, not what I like, just what's out there what is available.

Thank you very much!

Carlos De La O III

 

[Brian Marshall]

Somewhere back in the tool wars days, I posted a technical comparison - if that is what you are after?

How much air consumed, how many strokes per minute, use or not of electricity, collets or not, footprint... all that stuff.

Go dig for it if that's what you need. Save yourself some time and research.

I don't think much has changed?

Lindsay came up with the Nitro, and I'm not sure if the full bore combined GRS MachAT existed yet, but I believe the AT did.


I am not a hobbyist... and EVERY one of them is here in the classroom, including the newest one, the Enset.


Brian

 

[dlilazteca]

Brian,

Thank you, I'll look it up here on the forum, I'll search your posts from your profile.

If you have it in hand, send me a link.

I'm a little amazed how everyone refers to a time called "tool wars."

I love the passion you guys have! It makes for better products if we did not have this instinctive drive we'd be still living in caves.



Carlos De La O III

 

[Brian Marshall]

P'raps you should come on out here and do your video with ALL of them in it?

Hammer/chisel, push, Gravermeister to Enset... and everything in between. Quite a few models not in production anymore.

Plus ALL the brands of vises, scopes, etc.

Take you a full day... maybe more, to sit at the benches and personally test drive every one.


B.

 

[dlilazteca]

Brian

Where are you located?

Guerrero? How far are you from Ixtapa?

Carlos De La O III

 

[tundratrekers@mtaonline.n]

If you don't take Brian up on the offer,you will be foolish !!!!!

michael

 

[Brian Marshall]

The tool collection is in the school which is in Stockton, CA.

The fabrication shop in Taxco is still there, but hasn't been operating for 5 or 6 years now.

One day I will have to do something with it... Very little engraving equipment down there.


B.

 

[dlilazteca]

Might have to take you up on the trip,
Hows the availability for this coming summer.

Carlos De La O III

 

[GTJC460]

I think it's a great idea. How else will newbs know what each system is like?! All the "masters" are either being paid or given free tools to work with. Therefore, their assessment and recommendations on tools are biased at best, and realistically tainted. Heck, there are folks claiming to use certain products when in fact use another brand almost exclusively.

 

[Dave London]

Whow, Bert that, is a whopper, not true for at least one mfg that I know of. MTC

 

[Andrew Biggs]

I think it's a great idea. How else will newbs know what each system is like?! All the "masters" are either being paid or given free tools to work with. Therefore, their assessment and recommendations on tools are biased at best, and realistically tainted. Heck, there are folks claiming to use certain products when in fact use another brand almost exclusively.

And therein lies the very reason the tool wars started in the first place...............because of utterly stupid statements like this. So already it is not about the tools but has degenerated into the people that use them.

Jesus wept!!!.......And here I was thinking those days had passed.

Andrew

 

[Dave London]

Correct Andrew please lock, thanks Dave