Troy G
Elite Cafe Member
does anyone carry liability insurance for the firearms they engrave?
Question: liability insurance
- Thread starter Troy G
- Start date
Dulltool
Elite Cafe Member
Hey Troy,
I've never heard of a gun failing caused by engraving..... so in a nut shell.... no.
I've never heard of a gun failing caused by engraving..... so in a nut shell.... no.
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Troy G
Elite Cafe Member
Thanks Dennis, I was just wondering because of the sue happy society we live in.
-Troy
-Troy
Jared Eason
Elite Cafe Member
If your worried have your customers sign a waver
glstrcowboy
Elite Cafe Member
Did you mean insurance to cover a firearm failure after you have modified it or to cover replacement costs if you ruin it beyond repair?
Troy G
Elite Cafe Member
Thanks guys
I checked into insurance from an NRA supported company about a year ago. The covered liability for customers and employees. The covered loss (stolen) customers guns. The did not cover damage caused by engraving weakened firearms. Agent thought the request was odd.
Roger Bleile
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
In over 35 years of doing and reading about gun engraving and talking with hundreds of engravers, I have never even heard a third hand story of a gun rupturing because of engraving.
The only damage to firearm I've ever heard of was from poor judgement when it came to reloading ammo or using the wrong ammo or really old ammo,never about a gun blowing up after it was engraved. J.J.
If you look for inviting legal problems just buy insurance that no one needs or wants.
You will then find a lawyer that would be more than glad to find a reason to go after you (Logical or not...)
I would let sleeping dogs along for sure on this one...
AirAmp
You will then find a lawyer that would be more than glad to find a reason to go after you (Logical or not...)
I would let sleeping dogs along for sure on this one...
AirAmp
Never heard it expressed like that AirAmp but I think you found the "logical" part.
Arnaud Van Tilburgh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
About liability insurance concerning stone setting, I do not know if that is possible in the USA.
Over here, it is impossible for a stone setter to have insurance for the stones to be set.
That means the risk is always by the owner of the stones.
Don't know anything about gun insurance
arnaud
Over here, it is impossible for a stone setter to have insurance for the stones to be set.
That means the risk is always by the owner of the stones.
Don't know anything about gun insurance
arnaud
Ed Westerly
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
In one of the books I have on engraving, there is a picture captioned to the effect that the gun has been engraved so deeply as to render it unsafe to shoot. I don't know who made that evaluation, or how deeply the gun had been engraved, but it made a lasting impression on me as a new engraver, and I have been haunted by it ever since! I always check cylinder and barrel thickness before I cut, but that is probably not neccessary, as my cuts are usually .010-.015 in. deep. Not very much, when most barrels are .100+ in. thick.
Roger Bleile
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Bruce,
I know that idiotic comment was not in any of my books. I think I have every book ever written on gun engraving but , of course, I can't remember everything written in all of them.
Roger
I know that idiotic comment was not in any of my books. I think I have every book ever written on gun engraving but , of course, I can't remember everything written in all of them.
Roger
Ed Westerly
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
No, Roger, it wasn't in one of your books. I won't say which one it was at this time, as I am away from my library, and can't check to make sure. I think it was a book written in the 1970's, but I will have to check.
Marrinan
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I seem to remember a text that cautioned against engraving cylinders and barrels, shields on certain weapons like the 44 special and mag. Fred
Mike Fennell
Elite Cafe Member
I was a defense litigation attorney, with my specialty being product liability defense, from January, 1973 until I put my license in retirement in 2009.
It is true that engraving is unlikely to lead to liability, but it is also true that whenever any machine contributes to an injury, the plaintiff's attorney will sue every person and entity that ever performed any work on that machine, and let the judge and jury determine who is at fault. Kind of like "shoot everyone and let God sort them out"
There is a reason for this: If he fails to sue a given party, and then fails to win against those he did sue, guess what his client is going to do to him?
It is the cost of defense, as well as the cost of a judgment, that you insure against. You must determine whether you can afford the cost of defense or whether you can afford the cost of an insurance policy that will pay the cost of defense along with any judgment that may be entered. Either choice can be expensive.
Personally, I am not too concerned. With my background and experience, I can afford to have a fool for a client long enough to seek dismissal or summary judgment. However, most of us are not trained to climb into the ring with an experienced verbal gladiator, and would be wise to have an insurer pick up the costs, as long as the premiums don’t make your business unprofitable.
As for jewelers and stone setters, occasionally even a careful person can shatter a stone, or lose one, or have one stolen in transit. I believe that most jewelers’ insurance covers these incidents and is relatively inexpensive.
It is true that engraving is unlikely to lead to liability, but it is also true that whenever any machine contributes to an injury, the plaintiff's attorney will sue every person and entity that ever performed any work on that machine, and let the judge and jury determine who is at fault. Kind of like "shoot everyone and let God sort them out"
There is a reason for this: If he fails to sue a given party, and then fails to win against those he did sue, guess what his client is going to do to him?
It is the cost of defense, as well as the cost of a judgment, that you insure against. You must determine whether you can afford the cost of defense or whether you can afford the cost of an insurance policy that will pay the cost of defense along with any judgment that may be entered. Either choice can be expensive.
Personally, I am not too concerned. With my background and experience, I can afford to have a fool for a client long enough to seek dismissal or summary judgment. However, most of us are not trained to climb into the ring with an experienced verbal gladiator, and would be wise to have an insurer pick up the costs, as long as the premiums don’t make your business unprofitable.
As for jewelers and stone setters, occasionally even a careful person can shatter a stone, or lose one, or have one stolen in transit. I believe that most jewelers’ insurance covers these incidents and is relatively inexpensive.
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James Roettger
Elite Cafe Member
In the jewelry business I know Federated Insurance used to and still may sell insurance against damaged caused while working on an item. I think it is better to believe you will be ruined by a big mistake than to think insurance will cover a serious mess up like a broken stone etc. Keeps you on your toes knowing it will hit you and you alone. It reminds me of a diamond cutter I know who once got sued for $5000 by a jeweler to cover a marquis that broke while having it recut to repair existing damage to one of the pointed ends. The cutter had to pay which was totally unfair and should have been and understood risk. Take a broken stone, break it some more and now it's yours. I recently sent a diamond to Stuller for recutting and they being consummate professionals made me sign a waiver which of course I didn't make my client sign too. Waivers are a good idea and will rarely stop a sale.
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Ed Westerly
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Fred,
If we stopped cutting on cylinders and barrels, where would we be! I have cut on several magnum handguns, and they all still go bang and not boom! There is actually a lot of extra matterial in those guns, as evidenced by the Ruger Superblackhawk I saw which had been fired with loads triple charged over book maximum. All that happened was that the barrel was blown off the gun!
If we stopped cutting on cylinders and barrels, where would we be! I have cut on several magnum handguns, and they all still go bang and not boom! There is actually a lot of extra matterial in those guns, as evidenced by the Ruger Superblackhawk I saw which had been fired with loads triple charged over book maximum. All that happened was that the barrel was blown off the gun!
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