Is "Flawed/imperfect is a good thing" ?

[Thierry Duguet]

I did read recently that flows and imperfections are desirable, that defacing one's own work was commendable in order to satisfy the desire from the customer to have a "truly" hand engraved work.
Needless to say that I strongly disagree, I think it is a natural tendency for any craftsman to perform to the best of its ability, out of respect for him/herself, respect for his/her craft, respect to the client. I think that flows and imperfections are inherently parts of any hand work and are the result of the limitation of the artist, I furthermore think that defacing (or pretending to deface)one's own work to satisfy the customer is nothing less than a fraud. So what is your opinion?

 

[Marrinan]

Absolutely agree! We should always work to the best of our ability. Fred

 

[Boomhower]

I thank that if you don't do your best you are kidding yourself I have always done my best and will always do so.
With that said. I no that there is people that want to see mistakes in place's so they no it is done by hand.
When I done scroll saw work I had to compeat with everyone with a laser and there is people that did not want laser cut stuff. I wood have to show them the cut marks and show them no burnt edges before they wood even buy some of my stuff
Some people just don't no but they do no that they want it done by hand
Here is a clock that a guy wanted to fight me cuz he said I was lieing to him and I cut this clock with a laser. But other artists steped in and that guy felt like a dummy win he left

 

[Gemsetterchris]

Seems to be some confusion here between imperfections which are fairly difficult to avoid 100% even by doing your very bestest & neatest hand work and "rustic art".
That of being intentionally rough/worn looking, but not necessarily badly made.
It's a style, not a lack of ability or skill, nor an excuse for sloppy work.

 

[Sam]

I guess i need to see and example of defacing your own work. I'm not sure I'm understanding.

 

[Thierry Duguet]

Seems to be some confusion here between imperfections which are fairly difficult to avoid 100% even by doing your very bestest & neatest hand work and "rustic art".
That of being intentionally rough/worn looking, but not necessarily badly made.
It's a style, not a lack of ability or skill, nor an excuse for sloppy work.

Actually yes, original "rustic" denote the lack of ability or the lack care in the creation that is why this object are now call rustic, the objects better crafted are call antiques. Yes it is a style, or I should say that it became one, it was not originally, what was once the result of the skill of the craftsman did became fashionable among people which did not have the taste or the mean for antiquities. Some might be tempted to call it "authentic" art, or "folk" art what is it when the "rustic" feeling become the goal, what is the "authentic" part of the achievement when what was once incidental become deliberate?
It remind me of "naive art", what is naive about it if the artist need to learn about it, and think about "being naive enough", isn't it just role playing and exploitation?

 

[Thierry Duguet]

I guess i need to see and example of defacing your own work. I'm not sure I'm understanding.

"As I have said in the past , I incorporate file/hammer marks in various places on my spurs to give them that handmade/used look." From one of the poster in this forum.

 

[Riflesmith]

I see this question as philosophical! On one hand you have the engraving "artist" and on the other you have the engraving euntrapenure, for lack of a better term. One is motivated by the art and the other is motivated to fill a niche of supply and demand. It would seem to me to be a matter of opinion and preference by the clientele. Would I deface my work intentionally? No, although the thought has crossed my mind to just throw it out because I'm my own worst critic and see all the flaws. That's a learning tool for me. Art and the appeal of any art is judged by the eye of the beholder. JMO

 

[Gemsetterchris]

A rustic ring, a style made on purpose in a modern workshop.
Copying a medieval standard? Maybe...
Some like this & I quite like it too


I'm sure the public are intelligent enough to see that It's not terrible workmanship, they go to the mall chain store jewellers for that!
I've also seen purposely distorted bezel settings for stones...the maker likes doing that & it can't go wrong..her stuff sells because people like the look.

Hiding a lack of talent for doing neat perfection? Maybe! Maybe not!

 

[Sam]

"As I have said in the past , I incorporate file/hammer marks in various places on my spurs to give them that handmade/used look." From one of the poster in this forum.

Oh, ok. This is called "distressed look" which is done on musical instruments, furniture, etc, to give it a vintage look. Even a certain Leica camera is/was available with a distressed, worn, vintage finish.

 

[Boomhower]

I didn't thank about the rustic side or something made with the original tools.
There is different sides to that ballgame there is the true craftsmanship like gemsetter posted and then there is my sister in law that throws out some ugly stuff
I do alot of my work the old fashioned way just because I like history of it and the tools they had long ago it gives me more pride in my work but I always do my best if it don't come out like it should it never leaves the shop no matter what.
But by no means is making something to look centuries old no matter there skill level if it is done right does not make them less of a craftsman or artists

 

[Brian Marshall]

Mustn't compete with the various "gods" for perfection... a lake of fire for eternity or some such thing may be your reward.

Unless, of course your brand permits it?

Humanity is so strange...


Brian

 

[Gemsetterchris]

Oh, ok. This is called "distressed look" which is done on musical instruments, furniture, etc, to give it a vintage look.

Exactly...kind of.
Difference of making something look well worn (that was once pristine) or then it wasn't intended pristine in the first place.

 

[Marrinan]

In the 70's I did a lot of silver work in the traditional theme of turquoise and re coral. a lot of leaf. Used bear claws and artificial eagle talons. My maternal grandfather was Yaqui and my paternal great grandmother was Comanche. I was born on the reservation tribal trust land leased to a Steel mill south of Pueblo Colorado. The style was introduced post WW2 in the trades program for veterans. The history of "Indian", "Navajo", "Hopi". and "Zuni" in the very late 19th and primarily early to mid 20th century. It is NOT First Nation in its origin and was an attempt to make Indian an industry like rugs and pottery. The history can be easily traced to the first maker of "Indian Silverwork". I showed my work in all Native shows and never won anything. Why you ask-you could not find the seams in the solder joints or bezels. the feathers were soldered in place with no sloppy solder joints. It was to perfect for "Indian" work. At the time you could buy Indian made silver rings for 2 or 3 dollars Squash Blossom necklaces for fifteen dollars. Most of these were manufactured in factories or shops that employed Natives as factory workers so the could be marked as handmade Indian works. For those old enough to remember the blind guys who went door to door selling brooms made by the blind-Just factories that hired the blind as a marketing tool. I gave up stamping silver, I have quit a large supply of turquoise. still have most of my lapidary machines. BUT I would rather give away my work to friends and family than sell a ring for three dollars to compete with the Shops in Mexico or even the three on the Navajo Reservation. That is when I took up engraving-to make my silverwork Special, hand made art. I work hard to make my work with invisible solder joints and clean overlays and would would still rather give it away before selling at less than my time is worth to me. Fred

 

[Boomhower]

Marrinan. That is why I don't do fretwork anymore cuz the laser's have tock over and I too wood rather give my work away then sell it for Penny's

 

[Gemsetterchris]

There are certain industries where machinery, lasers & lots of other fancy pants stuff is the way to go & old school just won't cut the mustard anymore.
There are exceptions naturally & always.

Jewellery & luxury products have a choice thankfully for now.
Go where your heart leads & do your stuff as you like it...just find some people that like it too!

You just have to be sure you aim high + at whatever style you want, perfect handwork being the most difficult.
And...you can be damn sure there more than plenty of consumers that don't want, appreciate or like top notch craftmanship.

Figure that!

 

[Boomhower]

Forsure gemsetter that's all we can do

 

[Steve L S]

Good topic ! In hot forged wrought iron work a sign of good craftsmanship is to go over your work with a “Flatter” – to smooth out hammer marks. With the invention of Hebo machines, machines which unskilled operators use to make hot forged scrolls, I have tossed out the flatter and deliberately leave in hammer marks and try to tastefully and thoughtfully incorporate them into the work. Why? To try to make this work a zebra in a whole herd of cattle.

He who pays the piper calls the tune and the borg have assimilated most of the planet now into the universal hive mind which substitutes cheap tarty glitz and glamour for lasting beauty

Steve

 

[Gemsetterchris]

Why? To try to make this work a zebra in a whole herd of cattle.
Steve

Bingo! Precisely why I just bought some wooden handles & yellow tang hss vallorbe scorpers.
Going back "old school" (or abit hybrid at least)..

 

[Chujybear]

I did read recently that flows and imperfections are desirable, that defacing one's own work was commendable in order to satisfy the desire from the customer to have a "truly" hand engraved work.
Needless to say that I strongly disagree, I think it is a natural tendency for any craftsman to perform to the best of its ability, out of respect for him/herself, respect for his/her craft, respect to the client. I think that flows and imperfections are inherently parts of any hand work and are the result of the limitation of the artist, I furthermore think that defacing (or pretending to deface)one's own work to satisfy the customer is nothing less than a fraud. So what is your opinion?

I think you may be overstating your position. I do appreciate the spirit of where you are coming from... But I think the only possible fraud here is if people are 'antiquing ' their work to, say, pass it off as coming from a different era.
As an artist, if their aesthetics say that their surface needs more texture, or color, I don't see how this carries any different value than all the other processes that an artist applies to their work.

One of my favorite quotes tho, that more or less backs up your position, comes from my old master Bill Reid. ' an artist only responsibility is to the well made object, only then, perhaps, it will be visited by grace'