Gun Engraving and True Hand Engraving A Study Guide of Design, Tools and Techniques
- Thread starter mdengraver
- Start date
Marcus Hunt
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
mmmmm....... perhaps this guy's better suited as a writer. Sorry, but I don't set much store by guys that can talk the talk but can't walk the walk. His scrollwork is incredibly crude, the lettering is some of the worst I've ever seen AND he goes on about observing wildlife, etc, etc. Why then ( if you follow through to KMatt's gun) has he no idea of a duck's anatomy? 8 primary's on one duck and 13 on the other??? My first attempt at a pheasant when I was an apprentice was better than this guy's. It truly amazes me that this guy can make a living as an engraver!
Before he criticises other engravers, and the use of air assisted tools, perhaps he should actually be able to come up with the goods himself. Do yourselves a favour and don't fall for this psychobabble.
Before he criticises other engravers, and the use of air assisted tools, perhaps he should actually be able to come up with the goods himself. Do yourselves a favour and don't fall for this psychobabble.
Keith
Elite Cafe Member
His youtube videos are just as bad, He's really down on power assist.
This was a topic here about 6 months back....
Chris, I grew up in New York city and saw the wild life 2 minute wheel stealing many times. Amazing how fast those guys work.
This was a topic here about 6 months back....
Chris, I grew up in New York city and saw the wild life 2 minute wheel stealing many times. Amazing how fast those guys work.
Mr.Olin is on a website own by a gentleman who deals in high grade double guns.I email him and ask to be put on his links,he told me he never heard of me.I told him he did't look hard enough.Can't sweat the small stuff. J.J.
jerrywh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Marcus. Don't be so tactfull just tell us what your real opinion is.
Andrew Biggs
Moderator
The thing I dislike about this kind of thing is that the man has not asked us to post his web site or comment on his work or opinions about engraving. He has his own marketing strategy that he feels works for him and hasn't sought our opinions about it. He is also probably blissfully unaware what is happening and therefore doesn't have the right of redress.
Cheers
Andrew
Cheers
Andrew
Nathan Ott
Member
I don't intend to be rude in this, and I haven't got half the experience this guy does, but really, what's to defend?
His pretension really seems to out match his skill on every level.
Christopher Malouf
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Hey Keith, I'm confused by that blog article .... does he actually go hunting at the zoo? How do circus bears compare to .... say, and African safari? I simply don't get it.
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Keith
Elite Cafe Member
Chris,
I didnt even read the blog after I saw it was him. I saw his stuff in the past and his opinion on what real engraving is and how power assist is junk etc.... Your post brought back memories of when I was a guard and watched guys strip cars with great speed, made the indy guys look slow......
Now what kind of bear was that
I didnt even read the blog after I saw it was him. I saw his stuff in the past and his opinion on what real engraving is and how power assist is junk etc.... Your post brought back memories of when I was a guard and watched guys strip cars with great speed, made the indy guys look slow......
Now what kind of bear was that
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Crazy Horse
Elite Cafe Member
I began reading his articles then quickly determined that he was overly full of himself and obviously a legand in his own little world.
I have little doubt that if Michaelangelo had the opportunity to use pneumatic equipment he would have jumped at the chance. If Rembrant had the availability of acrylics he certainly would have bought a stock of tubes.
I wonder if this guy drives to work in a horse and buggy? Ya think???
I have little doubt that if Michaelangelo had the opportunity to use pneumatic equipment he would have jumped at the chance. If Rembrant had the availability of acrylics he certainly would have bought a stock of tubes.
I wonder if this guy drives to work in a horse and buggy? Ya think???
Doc Mark
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
You know, I can really appreciate those engravers who wish to keep the old Hammer & Chisel work as the truly viable engraving modality it's always been. However, to state so categorically that it is the only true "hand engraving" technique is both disingenuous and insulting. Everyone IS entitled to their opinion, but as Marcus stated, then show me what the H & C can really do! God knows I'm no great shakes as an engraver yet, but this work is inferior to most beginners. As to his game scenes, I've always got a yard full of Mallards (my wife feeds anything that can walk, crawl, fly or slither into our yard) and his "superior observational skills" as a real hunter, are sorely lacking. In general, his work would be easily forgettable if his blogs weren't so insulting! One of his direct quotes: "If one is only fair or just very good, the air impact tool engraving is to true hand engraving as a spray paint can is to oil painting." As the kids are wont to say, OMG!
OK, rant over,
Mark
OK, rant over,
Mark
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FANCYGUN
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
The last time I saw this engraver was a number of years ago at the Syracuse gun show. He was telling me how he engraves on his kitchen table. For what it's worth as to his hunting skills which should have no effect on his engraving skills. He was at the time a vegitarian. He is a nice enough person and I remember him at the FEGA show a number of years back asking questions and taking very diligent notes.
Unfortunately he is lacking as an engrave after all these years in my minds eye.
Unfortunately he is lacking as an engrave after all these years in my minds eye.
Marcus Hunt
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Personally, I don't care what kind of engraver he is. There will be some poor soul/mug somewhere who falls for his hyperbole and will think his work is the greatest.
Where I do have a problem is when someone sets themselves up as some sort of authority/expert on the subject. Just who the hell is this guy? The internet gives great scope for anyone to publish anything. Hopefully not too many people have come across this load of bull. To be honest, if he could produce the goods I'd hold him in some sort of credence (but I wouldn't necessarily agree with him) but he can't so the reality is he is looking incredibly foolish.
Andrew, I know he didn't post on here but if he puts his stuff out there for all the world to see then one day the truth will rear it's ugly head and bite him on the bum. It would have been far better for him to just keep quietly engraving and servicing his clients. Instead he's turned himself into some self appointed authority on the subject and like it or not, he's now got himself noticed by a larger world and will have to live with the consequences.
Where I do have a problem is when someone sets themselves up as some sort of authority/expert on the subject. Just who the hell is this guy? The internet gives great scope for anyone to publish anything. Hopefully not too many people have come across this load of bull. To be honest, if he could produce the goods I'd hold him in some sort of credence (but I wouldn't necessarily agree with him) but he can't so the reality is he is looking incredibly foolish.
Andrew, I know he didn't post on here but if he puts his stuff out there for all the world to see then one day the truth will rear it's ugly head and bite him on the bum. It would have been far better for him to just keep quietly engraving and servicing his clients. Instead he's turned himself into some self appointed authority on the subject and like it or not, he's now got himself noticed by a larger world and will have to live with the consequences.
Marrinan
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
This is an example of what has been recently discussed on the forums as to what is a master and how the term is used. This gentleman and one in South Carolina I think who is frequently represented as a master engraver by the Ashton Florida gun dealer are absolutely free to use the terms the same as anyone else. True high end engravers are of course free to discuss the short comings of the work at their leisure. Both these "engravers" as well as a number of Hobo Nickle hacks that sell on ebay at the $10 level are free to pursue the ignorant customer at the buyer beware level.
However---It should be all of our mission, like that of FEGA to educate the public as to what is what. There have been a number of articles written in the past that have carried on this activity. Books have been written, pictures published, web presents established. but unfortunately it has not been enough. The public can not learn to appreciate the work unless they see it. Each engraver should be prepared to guide anyone who asks what we do not just to their work but to examples of other works that are truly first rate. If a potential customer or potential collector shows interest discuss what is good and excellent engraving and also what is not. The gentleman under discussion here is a good example of what should be discussed when talking about hand engraving (Sans vilest H & C crap). Unfortunately as Marcus said "talk the talk" but deliver the walk.
I have an idea bubbling in my brain that I want to discuss privately with a few people and will get back to the forum on in the very near future on educating the potential customers and collectors.
Fred
However---It should be all of our mission, like that of FEGA to educate the public as to what is what. There have been a number of articles written in the past that have carried on this activity. Books have been written, pictures published, web presents established. but unfortunately it has not been enough. The public can not learn to appreciate the work unless they see it. Each engraver should be prepared to guide anyone who asks what we do not just to their work but to examples of other works that are truly first rate. If a potential customer or potential collector shows interest discuss what is good and excellent engraving and also what is not. The gentleman under discussion here is a good example of what should be discussed when talking about hand engraving (Sans vilest H & C crap). Unfortunately as Marcus said "talk the talk" but deliver the walk.
I have an idea bubbling in my brain that I want to discuss privately with a few people and will get back to the forum on in the very near future on educating the potential customers and collectors.
Fred
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kguns
Member
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2007
- Messages
- 96
Caveat emptor, pronounced /ˌkævi.ɑːt ˈɛmptɔr/, is Latin for "Let the buyer beware".
Especially true here his web site may be buggy!! I clicked on one of his photos, one of the hammers and it started opening 48 new windows until I got the laptop shut down.
Surfers beware!!!!
Especially true here his web site may be buggy!! I clicked on one of his photos, one of the hammers and it started opening 48 new windows until I got the laptop shut down.
Surfers beware!!!!
FANCYGUN
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
VEGETERIAN.................Indian word for lousy hunter
HUNTING.......When grown men bond..........something has to die
HUNTING.......When grown men bond..........something has to die
mdengraver
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Definition of Paleontologist
Definition of Paleontologist = A person who can't stand the sight of blood.
Definition of Paleontologist = A person who can't stand the sight of blood.
Roger Bleile
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
According to Olin, true hand engraving is only done with hammer & chisel. One could easily say that true hand engraving is only done with a push burin which he apparently doesn't use. What he does use is a power hone for sharpening, electric lights and all of the other modern conveniences. You can't have it both ways. You are either a Luddite, contemporary, or a hypocrite.
When I see a Gravermax, Airgraver, or Magnagraver jump off a bench and start engraving without a human hand attached to it is the day that I will agree with Olin's view of hand engraving.
CRB
When I see a Gravermax, Airgraver, or Magnagraver jump off a bench and start engraving without a human hand attached to it is the day that I will agree with Olin's view of hand engraving.
CRB
FANCYGUN
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Roger.........
There are times when I do feel like my tools have a mind of their own..........no matter what I try to make them do.
That's when I have to discipline them.
There are times when I do feel like my tools have a mind of their own..........no matter what I try to make them do.
That's when I have to discipline them.
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