Critique Request first basic scroll drawing..

[Jared Eason]

It was suggested that I draw a simple scroll that is good enough to practice , over ,and over, until I can engrave it without problems . This is my first completed basic scroll drawing. Tips, thoughts, what do y'all think...

I also welcome anyone to take the outline and redo the shading to show me a better way , if I did not do it correctly.

Thanks.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Jared, a lot of things are wrong with you first basic scroll. If you need practice you are free to use this PDF documents from Chris's studio

http://www.engraversstudio.com/apps/documents/

arnaud

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Jared

Not bad at all. Your actual scroll backbone is pretty well formed. You obviously have some skill so it just needs direction

The bad news is that it's not really scroll that you have drawn. I've attached a grip cap I did for you so we know what the definition of scroll is for the purposes of this particular exercise. As you advance you will begin to realise that there are many types of scroll.

I would highly recommend that you buy the book Advanced Drawing of Scrolls by Ron Smith from either FEGA or GRS. I know, I know, more money........but the book is worth every cent and will keep you going forever.

When you can draw and cut that one good scroll.........then run two parallel lines and draw several good scrolls. One up, one down, one up, one down etc etc just like it is on the grip cap. This will put you on a path of learning to draw within the canvas which is essential to engraving.

Cheers
Andrew

P.S. Go to www.igraver.com and you will find a lot of really helpful exercises, and tutorials. Plus some excellent scroll samples that Sam has put a lot of effort into.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Another great book is the one of Lee Griffith, he was able to keep it simple.



http://www.lgartistry.com/forsale.html

arnaud

 

[JJ Roberts]

Jared,Take the avice of Andrew and Arnaud and get either book Ron or Lee's book on scrolls and you'll get a better understaning of the anatomy of scroll design. J.J.

 

[dlilazteca]

Comparing these two books with Sams DVD for Scrolls which would you buy first. I know you probably say that they're all good but in what order would you buy to three

Carlos De La O III

 

[John Cole]

I tend to like "books first". Books don't require electicity to make them work.
That being said, the dvd should come *very* close behind them. The main benifit to the dvd is that it is as close as you can get to one on one instruction with a master engraver and still be at home.
The books tend to give more overall information. The dvd shows you the practical application of pencil on paper as well as the progression of a piece of scrollwork and why the shading lines work.
You are looking at two different methods of instruction. Each one compliments the other one.
However, for me, I tend to lean towards books first.

John

 

[Red Green]

I've not had much luck offering critique, so I'm not eager to offer one. I would like to offer some suggestions. The first is learning to self critique, the first question should be: 'how does this work compare to other work?' and ' how does it compare to a Masters work?'. Centuries of design and works have brought engraving to where it is today, it may take you a minute to understand and appreciate why things have developed as they have. You have talent and ambition, you would do best to follow the path that has proven to work well before moving on to your own. Can you tell or show me how your drawing differs from the many of the designs you have seen here? To be able to 'see' and compare your own work to others will shorten your learning time, and will be particularly faster if you can 'fix' it as you draw. If you have trouble doing this it may serve you to copy and cut some Master work to gain understanding, I'm sure the books and DVDs would help.

Bob

 

[Jared Eason]

Thanks. For the advice guys. I have James meek book and sam's DVD. Now can anyone explain what I did wrong here. I am going to get some more books to help me out but will have to make do with what I have for now. I use all my cash I saved up on a ball vise..
Bob all I really want is suggestions . Its suggestions that help me get better.

 

[didyoung]

jared
here is a sketch and the finished engraving of some of my work..
i have a couple of suggestions for you.
pick someone that you would consider to be a master and study their work.

this forum has so much info. and people that have a lot to offer.....we are all very lucky to be able to gather and share each others work.
dvd's are great for study.
i really like the books.
another great tool is castings....get as many as you want.

for me the most helpful thing that i done was to read the books instead of just looking at the pictures.

practice drawing...again and again
at some point you will be able to see the areas that need changing....from there you will then be able to make progress by leaps and bounds.

start with a single simple leaf.
once you are able to draw it and understand the leaf structure you will be able to shade it.
from there you can add different ideas to the basic leaf to give it added appeal.
remember ...you have to learn and understand the basic rules of drawing a leaf. from there you can add to that leaf to make it your own.

what i see about your drawing that sticks out the most is the areas where your small leaves connect to your stem.
keep at it and progress will come.

 

[John P. Anderson]

Jared,

Study freehand drawing. Basically you practice various exercises that pump up your ability to translate what you see to paper. A few examples of practice drawings to work the mind and the hand: Blind contour, Gesture, Line drawings, Negative Space, Drapery Study, Alignment Drawings, Tone Studies, Perspective Drawings, Vase/Face practice. Make and use a view finder, draw real objects rather than from photos.

Drapery Studies are fun. Throw a towel on the floor in front of you or drape it off the back a chair with lots of folds and shadow. Draw what you see. For variation crumple up paper or use a shirt. An great example of drapery is the gown on the Statue of Liberty. Draw her for a study. She's a great piece of art.

These drawings are mostly practice for the mind and meant for the trash. They are push ups and sit ups for the mind to draw what it sees.

I'm not sure of what books to reference. I was taught by relentless teacher at the local college. One book that comes to mind, dated but still a workable method, "Drawing from the Right Side of the Mind". Hit the library or better yet find a teacher.

Strong illustration/drawing ability is the foundation of all art.

John

 

[Red Green]

Those guys are giving you some good advice, you know the old saw about 'give a man a fish or teach a man to fish', if you are told what is wrong would it help you understand why? I want to help but pointing out what I consider design error in your work won't help you, you must see it yourself. You must 'see' and understand the difference, if you are blind to your own work it is difficult to grow. You must understand what makes up a scroll you like, you must see and understand what makes it what it is and draw it as yours. You are in control of the secrets to beautiful scrollwork they are within grasp of your eye and mind. Don't be discouraged, it is not easy but I think you will figure it out.

If you want a more hands on type of help why don't you do a side by side posting of your scroll and find a scroll Sam has posted into the forum or whatever work may have inspired this drawing, and see if you can find what the differences are? I know it's hardly fair to compare your work with Sam's but he'll just have to get over it. I don't know if this will help or others will comment but it's as hands on as I can think of. No one can make you see what is in front of you but maybe someone can help you stop ignoring it.

Bob

 

[Andrew Biggs]

I have James meek book and sam's DVD

Hi Jared

We can't really critique the scroll you have drawn because there is nothing to critique.

So...lets try and work with what you already have. Watch Sam's DVD and just copy what he's doing. Don't over think it, just copy as best you can. Watch a bit, pause, draw a bit and so on.

Another exercise is on page 147 of the Meeks book there is a picture of a fox at the bottom. Draw one of those large scrolls. Just one only. Repeat it a few times.

What you are looking for is true scroll backbone to be nice and curved with no lumps and bumps plus nicely formed leaves. Pay particular attention to the way your scroll spirals inwards.

Post your results and then we will have something to critique.

At this stage draw large. Don't try and draw 1 inch scrolls because it's a hopeless task at the beginning. Make them about 4 inches high. When you are forming the scroll draw very, very lightly as there will be a lot of rubbing out to be done. A good method is to draw with a series of dashes, not one solid line. Look at the paper upside down etc etc........the scroll should look good at any angle. Make minor adjustments as you go. This is the foundation of all your future work so it's important.

Keep things simple at this stage and over time things can start getting more complicated.

Bob........you are correct but at this stage it's not that helpful. In the beginning someone has to point things out to you and then once you've reached a certain stage of awareness then you can self critique. Up to that point most people don't have a clue what is right or wrong or good or bad or what to look for.............so they need some direction.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Jared Eason]

Bob.. I don't think anything particular inspired this drawing. I just sat down and drew the first thing g that came to mind. My backbones were a lot smoother but when I traced it with the pen I wavered a lil.

Thanks Andrew, for giving me some basis to use with what I have on hand. I do have a tendency to over think when watching same DVD...guess I need to slow my roll. Lol...so...I just need to draw one backbone and leaves to start? I will draw another scroll soon and post it for further grading...
Thanks again guys...and there is no chance of me getting discouraged. I know I have it in me to do well. So anytime I post something be as harsh ad you need to be to help me see the light....

I'm also going to try and find the book ,Drawing from the Right Side of the Mind

 

[bildio]

I'm also going to try and find the book ,Drawing from the Right Side of the Mind

It's "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain". It's available on Amazon. Also, look at the author's YouTube tutorial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctkRwRDdajo

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Jared, taking notice of the books you mentioned and used for study, especially Sam DVD on scrolls, I think you had the intention to draw a foetus scroll land some leaves.

So here is a sketch what I think was your intention at first.
One of the mistakes is that not all your leaves are connected in a smooth way to the backbone and that you need more revolution in a scroll.

Here is what I think comes close to your intention on your design. Yours is still under it

arnaud

 

[SamW]

A quick and crude redraw of your basic idea Jared. You finish it. TOS


Arnaud, you are too fast for me!

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Sam, I think yours is a bit too complicated for a first try at scroll

arnaud

 

[Jared Eason]

arnaud .. you hit the nail on the head.. that's more less what I saw in my head. Just looking at your redraw compared to mine shows me so much. Thank you... it really helps.. yous looks great to TOS. Think its a bit complex for me right now though

 

[Jared Eason]

And thank y'all for taking the time to do this. I know time is important and thanks for giving me some of yours.