english scroll practice plate

[michaelp]

This is a practice plate I just did using the tips from Ron&Marcus but I feel I did marcus a disservice . he pointed out that I had scrolls going in the same direction {not good} and here I did all over the place. I caught it after I started cutting the backbones,but decided to finish it. At least I got practice cutting.
The next one I will design on paper first and get it right before I put scribe to metal. thanks for looking

 

[michaelp]

I apologize for the small photos I'm going to try and repost

 

[michaelp]

 

[fegarex]

Mike,
Like you said, the scroll direction has some issues but the overall design looks pretty good.
The nick and dot borders look good!
Perhaps Marcus can jump in here and give you some more advice.

 

[Ron Smith]

That is excellent Mike. Quite an improvement. Leave a slight space between where the leaf line comes back to meet the spine line. This will give you a little stem. Keep it consistent on all of the spirals. I see some scrolls going the wrong way, but the design is very good. Make your scrolls come to the border line. You would also get a little more depth if you put a leaf or two in the crotches where one spiral ends and another starts and shade it there.

How do you feel about the improvements??
Very Nice!!
Marcus might have some things that will help too.
Ron S

 

[michaelp]

Rex, thank you, I'm learning a little more with each cut . I need to spend more time drawing it out first and pull it all together.

Ron I see what you mean about the spine and bringing the design to the border lines. I'm not sure where the crotches are though,I can't picture it.

thank you both for taking the time to help me

 

[sdcoxx]

Hello Mike,
I have been attempting English scroll, as well.
I used a photo of Rex's work to model my effort upon. (see attachments)
I am unable to attend Marcus Hunt's GRS English scroll engraving class.
An English scroll tutorial for Cafe members would be much appreciated....
Thanks Mike, for posting your English scroll.
Stephen

 

[michaelp]

stephen, looks good. I wanted to take his course {alot} but I am signed up for 2 other classes with Lee in june and can't afford three.I would love to spend the whole month there. I have considered transfering 1 class but all airfair ,cars, rooms and everything is booked.
Marcus has been a great help to me! and I hope he has a course next year. there is so much more to the different types of English scroll that I want to learn, and I can't think of a better tutor.

 

[KCSteve]

stephen, looks good. I wanted to take his course {alot} but I am signed up for 2 other classes with Lee in june and can't afford three.

Is one of those the Intermediate class the first week of June? If so, I'll see you there!

 

[michaelp]

KCSteve, funny you should ask,yes it is. I look forward to meeting you

 

[Big-Un]

How about a picture tutorial on the development of English scroll? I could use some insight from those that have the design characteristics "down pat".

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Hi guys, I would love to do a tutorial on Fine English Scroll for you guys. Unfortunately, I don't have the time at the moment as I'm snowed under with work that needs finishing before I head out to the USA in June. So I hope you can all wait a little while.

Bear in mind though, whilst a 'tutorial' shows the development of the scrolls it can't take the place of having a teacher on the spot; a teacher can pull you up and direct/show you how to do something immediately. This helps your learning curve immensely and saves you spending many hours on a practice plate only to be told you've done it wrong. With the 'tutorial' route you have to be prepared to 'waste' many hours getting to your destination and to really, really study hard. You have to learn to really see and replicate what you see rather than what you think you see. I appreciate many of you can't always make it to a class; either the dates don't match up, or there's a lack of funds, etc, etc, but I urge you, if you can, make the sacrifice and study with an experienced engraver if at all possible.

In conclusion, a tutorial will give you guidance but can't replace the hands-on class.

Here's a question for you; would you like me to approach GRS so I can develop a self-study pack for English scroll similar to the pack Ron has done?

PS, I don't have time at this moment to do a critique but will endeavour to sit down and do it this evening. You're doing very well Mike but I can see loads that will help you improve. You have the cutting ability, indeed you cut very well, so now it's just down to the designing and scroll construction. Don't worry, you're more than half way there Mike! Likewise Steve. Although your posting may mean me having to take these critiques to a different thread.

 

[KCSteve]

Since there are only a couple of classes that Lee's giving at GRS in June I figured we'd be classmates but it's always good to confirm. Woody was going to be coming up from Oz for a class the second week so we'd have only met if I ran down for the day. I was thinking about doing that but then he had some things come up and had to cancel.

Marcus

Yes we'd like another self-study kit! While live, in-person instruction is much better there's also a lot to be said for letting things soak in over time. With Ron's kit I move in fits and starts, partly due to time constraints and partly because I get to a 'key' bit and am able to dwell on it until I'm sure it's soaked in.

One suggestion for us all (including me) - post more sketches! I did that with the Zippo design I was working on and got great feedback. The one I cut into a lighter was much better than my initial one and I didn't even have to 'waste' a practice plate (I don't consider any engraving a complete waste, even if it winds up unusable - I've at least learned what not to do).

 

[Marcus Hunt]

You're right Steve, 'waste' isn't quite the word I was after that's why I put it in parenthesis. Ok, let's try 'invest' a lot of time in something. Giving guidance through words alone can be difficult and I hope the person who has put their work up for criticism can understand what the experienced engraver is trying to impart.

I've just got a scanner so sketches might be the way to go to try and explain things more clearly.

 

[Ron Smith]

I like Marcus' quote "you have to learn to really see and replicate what you see, rather than what you think you see". That confirms what I stress about structure and the need to break down structures so that you can relate to each part and line relationships, not just the whole thing. We naturally analize with periferal vision when we should be paying attention with tunnel vision to individual parts. Being in a class is advantagious because the instructor can catch you before you develope some bad habits. Bad habits exasterbate the learning process as it is hard to "see" around our habits sometimes.

Following pre-designed practice plates is very advantageous, but not nearly like having correction right on the spot.

Ron S

 

[sdcoxx]

Marcus,
Thank you for the WONDERFUL news regarding an English scroll tutorial in the future....
As Ron Smith mentioned, laser etched English scroll practice plates would be helpful and even a DVD with the printed hand-out from your GRS class this summer. All of which would be marketable through GRS, FEGA & the Engraver's Cafe... Residuals....
No doubt, 2-3 classes next year....
With the internet, the World is your classroom....

All the Best,

Thanks again,
Stephen

 

[michaelp]

Marcus , Ijust want to say thank you, I feel all of your,Rex's and Rons crticism has been priceless. I'm still trying to work fitting the class in because I value in person direction. there is nothing like a couple of wacks to the back of your head to make it stick. thanks again guy's you all have been a great help. cheers

 

[fegarex]

Hey Mike,
I never gave you a whack on the back of the head! I saw how you were built! That's why I always talked REALLY nice to you... I was afraid of the consequences otherwise.

 

[michaelp]

Rex, no you never hit,you just made me do nick&dot

 

[fegarex]

Yes, but it "hurts so good" doesn't it?
The nick and dot on the plate looked really good!