Help, please: Beginner's tool list

[LGB]

Sam,

I started trying to learn basic engraving in 1988 as most of my time was in gunsmithing making a living for my family. I have made most of my tools from materials which were already in my shop. I bought the first edition on The Art of Engraving in the 1970's and after a few years I made a similar tool used by Mr. Meeks to control the sharpening of gravers. After many updates I made the graver sharpening tool shown in the Engravers Magazine about 5 or 6 yrs go Issue #76. Someone needs to make this tool for the beginners. I am going to make up a few of these tools and send to some of you to try and give your opinion of its use. I have these tools on PDF files which I can mail to an email address as an attachment if anyone with a small lathe would like to make their own. I show the basic tools that I made around 1988 to get started. The swivel attachment for holding the part for engraving can be made for about thirty dollars. This tool is held in a bench vise which most people have in their work area.


A beginner needs some type of grinder to shape up the gravers before starting the final shape and making the correct angles. I have used a 3/8 in. high speed drill motor to use in a vise as the cheap grinder with the medium grit wheel. I use the diamond steel Eze Laps from Brownells to do the final shapening. I realize that most beginners need someone to help them get started to see if they have the ability to learn the engraving techniques. Sam you have the best site for info on the internet and I have told several people to join up and learn how with your held topics. I don't consider myself an engraver, but more of a tool designer. I can post pictures if anyone would like to see what I have been discussing here today.

 

[Red Green]

As a recent beginner I remember attempting to sharpen gravers by hand, I consider myself to be fairly handy but I could not get a properly sharpened graver, of course I didn't know that, they just didn't work right. I know old hands at engraving say you can and should hand sharpen but do you remember how long it took to get it right? To me not having a properly sharpened graver from the start may be detrimental to learning so I place a sharpening system on top of the list, but I'm a newb. The best equipment available is not much good with a junk point, just my opinion but I know I'd be better off hand pushing with a properly sharpened graver.

Bob

I'd like to see your system LGB

 

[Sam]

Sam,

I started trying to learn basic engraving in 1988 as most of my time was in gunsmithing making a living for my family. I have made most of my tools from materials which were already in my shop. I bought the first edition on The Art of Engraving in the 1970's and after a few years I made a similar tool used by Mr. Meeks to control the sharpening of gravers. After many updates I made the graver sharpening tool shown in the Engravers Magazine about 5 or 6 yrs go Issue #76. Someone needs to make this tool for the beginners. I am going to make up a few of these tools and send to some of you to try and give your opinion of its use. I have these tools on PDF files which I can mail to an email address as an attachment if anyone with a small lathe would like to make their own. I show the basic tools that I made around 1988 to get started. The swivel attachment for holding the part for engraving can be made for about thirty dollars. This tool is held in a bench vise which most people have in their work area.


A beginner needs some type of grinder to shape up the gravers before starting the final shape and making the correct angles. I have used a 3/8 in. high speed drill motor to use in a vise as the cheap grinder with the medium grit wheel. I use the diamond steel Eze Laps from Brownells to do the final shapening. I realize that most beginners need someone to help them get started to see if they have the ability to learn the engraving techniques. Sam you have the best site for info on the internet and I have told several people to join up and learn how with your held topics. I don't consider myself an engraver, but more of a tool designer. I can post pictures if anyone would like to see what I have been discussing here today.

LGB: I'd be happy to test your sharpening tool. Feel free to email me if you need my address. And you're certainly welcome to start a new thread do discuss it and share your PDFs. I think that'd be better than it getting lost or not seen in this thread. And thanks for your support!

 

[Sam]

As a recent beginner I remember attempting to sharpen gravers by hand, I consider myself to be fairly handy but I could not get a properly sharpened graver, of course I didn't know that, they just didn't work right. I know old hands at engraving say you can and should hand sharpen but do you remember how long it took to get it right? To me not having a properly sharpened graver from the start may be detrimental to learning so I place a sharpening system on top of the list, but I'm a newb. The best equipment available is not much good with a junk point, just my opinion but I know I'd be better off hand pushing with a properly sharpened graver.

Bob

I'd like to see your system LGB

Bob: Awhile back I posted a video on hand sharpening.

[video=youtube;dGg_EwRToLU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGg_EwRToLU[/video].

 

[Sam]

I have added: Books: Art of Engraving by JB Meek, design books by Ron Smith and Lee Griffiths
to each of the startup tool suggestions.

 

[Red Green]

That video should be added to the list or post, you provide both the how to and the reason to obtain a system, it should be seen by every new engraver on the first day.

Bob

 

[Sam]

That video should be added to the list or post, you provide both the how to and the reason to obtain a system, it should be seen by every new engraver on the first day.

Bob

I posted it in the Tips Archive on Nov 16th of 2012. I can add it to the post as well. Thanks for your suggestion.

 

[zmankay]

Sam, I am just a retired “off and on again” wanna-be, hobby engraver and my perspective on the beginning engravers tools are most probably different from the pro’s.

I, like many, started reading all of the forums to get an understanding and appreciation of the engraving art form and also the tools and procedures recommended by the forum members. There is a tremendous wealth of information in the various forums as Monk suggested. However, before buying any tools the first step that I would recommend is buying the John Schippers book “Engraving Historic Firearms” because John not only tells you what basic and advanced tools to use but how to use them. For me, John’s book is like a road map that anyone would take on a journey, because he tells you what to take and how to get there… tools, drawing, procedures, etc.

While John’s book costs $130, I believe if someone is seriously considering engraving as a hobby or profession, it is a worthwhile first step and a great resource as your skills increase should you decide to move forward. If, after buying the book and deciding that engraving is not for you, then the book could easily be sold for $100 on the Engraver’s Cafe or eBay. The bottom line is that for an inexpensive cost of $30 a beginner gets a taste of engraving and what it takes to make it happen.

If a beginner gets hooked and is seriously committed to engraving after perusing the Schippers’ book, the next stop that I would recommend is taking a basic lesson from a pro. There, a student will save a great deal of time on the learning curve, not to mention frustration, and also be able to evaluate the various tools and techniques of the pro, especially when considering future purchases of air tools and sharpening devices.

The DVD’s of Sam and others, offered through FEGA, should also be considered beyond the list of “basic” tools.

Thank you Sam for all that you and the other folks do with regard to sharing.

 

[Sam]

Thanks for your support, input and ideas, and for your kind words, Jim. Much appreciated

 

[DKanger]

the first step that I would recommend is buying the John Schippers book “Engraving Historic Firearmsâ€￾ because John not only tells you what basic and advanced tools to use but how to use them

I have to concur with Jim. Meek's book is outdated and doesn't hold a candle to John's book. It's a large, spiral bound book so it can be used on your bench. It is a complete engraving course and not only tells HOW to do something but is accompanied by 100's of color pictures SHOWING HOW to do it. It has examples of about 20 different borders and how they are cut. It has some basic design and tons of other stuff. I wish that people would relegate Meeks book to their library as an old classic and quit recommending it to newbies. It does them an injustice.

 

[Sam]

I guess I need to get a copy of John Schipper's book. I've not seen it but you sure make it sound good. I agree that Meek's book isn't the best source of information.

 

[LGB]

Your PM box was full and my message returned. Email to: Rvgunsmith@hotmail.com for the PDF files

 

[JJ Roberts]

Jim,Dave,Just a reminder if it were'nt for James Meek's book we would not be hear today on two engraving forums exchanging and sharing ideas.Mr.Meek was a real gentlemen,every time I call him he always had the time to talk and also had the time to write me.I have John Schippers book and he has done some fine engraving,I would like to know how many of you that have John book are now engraving with H&C in the Asian technique? I sure glad Meek's book came when it did because that is all I had,so thanks James and thanks Bob Brownell for talking Mr.Meek into writing The Art of Engraving. J.J.

 

[Marcus Hunt]

I'd just like to say that some of Meek's book is indeed outdated in that we now use computers for our artwork, etc., but the basics of how to set up tools and cut metal still apply. I haven't read the Schipper book so can't comment but the Meek book still offers a solid foundation even though the technology we now use may differ to when it was written.

 

[DKanger]

I guess I need to get a copy of John Schipper's book.

Wise choice, Sam A recommendation from you would lend more credibility than from we humble peons.
I believe that John has donated the proceeds from the book to benefit the new NMLRA Education Center

http://nmlra.org/products-page/books-dvds/

 

[zmankay]

J.J. and Marcus,

I agree with both of you regarding the value of James Meek's book and the trail that he blazed. However, I have both books, Meek and Schippers, and I believe a novice, like myself would get more value from the Schippers book just because of the detail that he mentions and illustrates. For me, "a picture is worth a thousand words" and John Schippers 445 page book thoroughly illustrates not only "how to" but shows photos of what the final result should look like. As a student, I think both books are invaluable and I'd be remiss if I failed to also mention Lee Griffiths "Art and Design" as a must have book. If you have all three books and are able to apply their guidance then you have a solid foundation.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

I have both Meeks and Shippers books and both are excellent. I'm still a fan of the Meeks book as I find it inspirational. Done in the day when typography and book design was a real art all by itself. It's also the book that launched me onto the path of engraving.

The Shippers book Engraving Historic Firearms is available also at the FEGA web site here

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Roger Bleile]

I spoke with John Shippers a couple of weeks ago and he said the edition is nearly sold out. I don't know if it will go into a second printing.

RB

 

[mdengraver]

I like Meeks book, but I have to say Shippers new book is the best I've seen, the most comprehensive, and a great asset to have, and highly recommended as a must for any serious engravers library and for wannabees as well. I treasure this book as part of my library.