Critique Request basic scroll attempt ( vol.2)

[Jared Eason]

Well guys how's this?

 

[bronc]

That's a good start Jared, big improvement over your first drawing. Now you have got something to build off of...well done!

Stewart

 

[diandwill]

That does look MUCH better.Personally, I like to make the leaves that are inside the scroll a little bigger. You will have to either remove the background or texture, in some fashion...I usually stipple. The less background there is, the quicker it goes, but that's just personal preference.

 

[rayf24]

Much improved on the first one but would suggest get hold of Lee griffiths / Ron Smiths book or Paul Hamlers these show a large number of leaf forms that will improve your designs greatly
Ray

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Jared, in my opinion you still have problems connecting leaves to the backbone. The leaves can be attached on the side front or the back. But the backbone should keep the same wideness.
The other ting, your scroll is parallel, and sure it can be done that way but most of what you see here is a scroll like the nautilus shell or similar And as you say you have some books on drawing acanthus, it should explain that


arnaud

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Not a bad attempt but there ar 2 things you might like to address. Firstly, your leaves/tendrils are pointing forwards which makes for a jagged instead of flowing effect. Try curving what would be your first cut of the tendril back on itself a bit more. Ding this will increase the aesthetic appeal tremendously. Secondly, I would make these elements slightly larger. You have a lot of background removal to do here and increasing the size of your inside work slightly a) cuts down on the amount needing to be removed and b) gives a better overall balance for the size of scroll. If you address these points you'll be we'll on your way to a nicely designed scroll, well done

Arnaud, I have to disagree. There is nothing wrong at all with this scroll per se apart from the inside work projecting in a forward direction (they should in fact curve backwards as the cels in your nautilus picture do). We are not trying to create a nautilus shell spiral to the spines of our scrolls. All the nautilus does is illustrate the golden mean but that is not the only type of scrollwork there is. In fact the nautilus type scroll often looks very wrong when engraved.

 

[Jared Eason]

Thanks all.. I will work on the issues pointed out and post my results for further analysis . I also plan on getting some more books but am limited on funds currently. The YouTube video that was suggested in my other scroll post Is wonderful. Haven't made it all the way through it yet but its opened my eyes already . I would suggest anyone to watch it . I also plan to get the book that goes along with it. Drawing from the right side of the Brain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctkRwRDdajo

 

[John P. Anderson]

This is a google book link to download the pdf "Guide For Drawing the Acanthus"

To view online click here

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Marcus, I didn't say a scroll could not be drawn that way, I know it can. Lee's book shows both the parallel and the the gradually funnel down smaller and smaller one.
Sam starts his basic drawing scroll DVD telling the space gets wider and wider from the centre of a scroll, and he shows the Nautilus Shell as a reference, not only as a reference for the golden mean.

So yes like you and I said, a scroll can be parallel too, only the most scrolls I see posted here aren't

arnaud

 

[Jared Eason]

Any tips on my shading.... looks like crap to me..

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Here are some pics I downloaded from the Cafe I think, where the author explained some mistakes that could be made drawing scrolls. I can’t remember who it was, probably Sam's
The point I try to make is that whether you use a class or books, also here you will find all the answers starting engraving and making designs.
But most of the time no one does a real good search in the archive, but is there I learned most of it.

It also illustrates what I tried to tell you about how the leaves are connected, and on yours the stem becomes too thin.

arnaud

 

[Jared Eason]

Thanks for the illustrations .
Keep in mind I'm kinda trying to keep my design very basic . I'm trying to draw a simple scroll and gain understanding , also so I can practice cutting said scroll. I know their is plenty patterns I could cut for practice. But just cutting lines isn't going to help me understand why the lines are the way they are. If that makes any sense.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Any tips on my shading.... looks like crap to me..

Jared, first you will have to learn to draw the scroll properly, the shading is even more difficult and not possible if the design itself isn't balanced.
Whether you draw simple scroll and leaves, it should be balanced (negative and positive space etc) and you should concentrate on that first.

So if you only made two designs so far, I would suggest to draw one every day and show your best one till you are convinced you are on track.
As most of the time when being honest, you will know the difference between a good or bad design by yourself

arnaud

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Thanks for the illustrations .
Keep in mind I'm kinda trying to keep my design very basic . I'm trying to draw a simple scroll and gain understanding , also so I can practice cutting said scroll. I know their is plenty patterns I could cut for practice. But just cutting lines isn't going to help me understand why the lines are the way they are. If that makes any sense.

Jared, no that doesn't make sense. On Chris website you can find the basic scroll engraving tutorial, it indeed starts with straight lines then curved ones and so on.
I helped Chris vectorising all the patterns, there are videos and examples how to design and cut a simple scroll. But it all starts with just cutting a straight line.
And cutting a straight line is one of the more difficult cuts.

SO don't try to run before you can stand up.

here is the link http://www.engraversstudio.com/apps/documents/
In the video blog archive you will see Chris demonstrating and explaining all of it

All that for free

 

[Jared Eason]

I been practicing the heck outta straight lines , curves. Ready to practice spirals . Hard to do that without a vise though . Got one heading my way . Hope I get it by end of the week.

 

[Jared Eason]

I guess what I'm trying to say is I think I might understand the pattern I'm cutting if I'm the one who drew it... cannot depend on using others art,patterns forever. Might as well learn to draw and cut my own starting out.

 

[Red Green]

The simple truth is you cannot make a silk purse from a pigs ear. 10,000 bad examples that you or anyone else makes will not show you anything about proper scrolls. You cannot 'see' what makes up a proper scroll that's is why you cannot draw it. You cannot show it or explain it because you don't understand it, and it is right in front of you. You can come to understanding but you must approach it with a practical plan if you want to do it in a reasonable time. Randomly drawing scroll things will take you a long time.


Bob

 

[Jared Eason]

What was your practical plan to learning scroll, Bob?

 

[Red Green]

I'll take that as attitude, and leave it as stated, and leave you to it, good luck.

Bob

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Thanks Bob, I could not have said it better. And sure I have experienced this too when trying to teach my daughter Lola.
Only when she was ready for it, my teaching came true.
It is something like with human baby's, if they would be able to see all there is around them like adults, they would become nuts.
Much too much impressions the human mind can't handle. You indeed need a step by step plan.

My way being autodidact is when I understand a part of what I'm learning, I search a way that what I learned doesn't work anymore. And when I realize it works in all situations, I take the next step

Kind of looking for proof about what I think I learned.

Arnaud