Airtac question

[ED DELORGE]

Do you airtac users have an ideal leangth for your graver. I find if the graver is to long my 901 starts too soon, if the graver is too short I have difficulty starting my hand piece.

Do you have an ideal measurment?

Thanks

Ed

 

[FANCYGUN]

Ed
I adjust my gravers for the length of my fingers just like any other graver or handpiece that I use be it powered or just plain push. I use the Airtact exclusively for my power work and never found the length of the graver to make a difference in the on off feature. Some of my newer gravers are longer than the older ones. Are you holding the handle any differently for the different graver tips? Heck Mine even have 6 ft hoses which GRS says should not work properly but hey do. Make sure the handpiece sits in your palm the same way and see what happens if anything

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Ed

I agree with Marty, your graver length shouldn't effect anything to do with the actual tools operation..

I cut my gravers back to about 40mm to 50mm when brand new. I have a tendency to like them shorter rather than longer. This doesn't affect the tool in any way........ but rather affects my ability to control it. If the gravers are too long it's like having a rifle with too long a barrel and tends to wave about a bit............but that is just my personal preference.

It almost sounds like the way you are holding your tool/graver. I found that the thumb down the side thing is not a good way to go on any of the air powered tools because it stretches your grip and it also applies unnecessary side pressure.....but again, others will do it differently.

One thing that you discover going from a foot pedal to a hand controlled piece is how much pressure you apply to the tool...........because your foot is essentially looking after the power side of things and your hand is free to do what it likes

Here are some things that may help you...............

I adjust the handpiece to it's smallest length so the whole tool fits in my hand comfortably. I also use the #10 palm element pad that you screw in as it's slightly bigger and gives me better contact with my hand..............Everything in the 12 o'clock position with graver top, quick change slots etc . Hose hanging straight down and don't wrap it round your wrist (unless necessary for certain jobs). Open your hand completely and place the handle in the middle of your palm..........close the fingers around it and bring your thumb and index finger together and pinch the back of the graver and the QC holder together.

This will give you a very relaxed but controlled hold on the tool so that you can operate the airtact smoothly. You will obviously make small adjustments from there. This is how I hold the handpiece when useing both the airtact and foot pedal.

When you first start the cut your hand will very slightly start pushing and making contact with the palm element which in turn starts the handpiece. The trick is to let your hand relax because the more you relax, the better it works.

Now all of that is what I do and it works for me and your fingers will be longer or shorter than mine................you may be different but that may (or may not) give you a good starting point

Cheers
Andrew

 

[FANCYGUN]

Thumb down the side not a good way to go????? Andrew.to me thats the best way to hold my tool. I do not usually engrave with my index finger on top but grasp the tool between the thumb and index finger and rest my thumb on the metal.

 

[Sam]

This is interesting because I find that the length of my gravers does have an affect when I use Airtact. I was never aware of the fact that my grip changes to adapt to graver length until I started using the Airtact palm feature, and as my grip changes the pressure on the touch element changes. So for me, gravers that are too long feel awkward than gravers which extend slightly beyond the tip of my thumb. I don't have an exact measurement, Ed, but you'll find the sweet spot if you experiment.

I should also add that I hold my Airtact handpieces like a traditional hand graver with my thumb extending down the side of the graver. I do not engrave with my index finger resting on the top of the graver.

 

[Marcus Hunt]

I agree with you completely Sam. I think graver length does have an impact on performance. For example, I have to use the extended QC collets when using C Max gravers because they're too short for me otherwise. Likewise, a graver that's too long isn't easy to work with either; but often something in me is too mean to grind off that extra quarter inch, lol.

 

[FANCYGUN]

Marcus
Are you saying graver length affects the on off feature of the Airtact or just the ease and quality of your cut? A proper length graver does help out with quality but once again I have not found it to affect the on off performance of my airtact.
But this is interesting to say the least........

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Marty

With the thumb down the side I found a couple of things happened. My grip would auotomatically extend out to the length of the graver and would feel slightly awkward ..........and that I was adding side pressure to the graver with my thumb. The graver used to slip sideways occasionally.

Once I shortened my gravers it gave me better control of the cut. Then by altering my grip to pinching the graver and QC the side pressure stopped and the graver length didn't matter (unless it was loo long) It basically gave me a consistant hold on the tool.

By what you are saying, we maybe saying the same thing......... but descibing it differentley.

And of course there are days where I hold the tool sitting upside down

Cheers
Andrew

 

[fegarex]

I think the whole "thumb" thing has to do with whether you were a "push" engraver before or not. For you that pushed before, the thumb down the side is more natural. For me I find it awkward as well.
Different strokes for different folks I think.

 

[FANCYGUN]

OK Andrew......we are talking pretty much holding the tool tha same way. It's just hard to understand you at times when you keep typing with that silly accent of yours. I also agree with Rex.that's REEKS to you Andrew, about if we are used to the old push gravers and power tools. I use hammerand chisel, push by hand and the airtact. I usually do not put my index finger on top of the graver with the airtact.however i did hold it that way with my old GraverMax and foot throttle. Go figure....
Either way you should adjust the length of the graver to the size of your hand and fingers.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Accent!!!.............moi????

 

[FANCYGUN]

Accent!!!.............moi????

and remember.........I don't have a Bronx accent

 

[fegarex]

Yea, right Marty...

 

[Kevin P.]

In Don Glaser's videos he recommends holding the graver like a table knife.
Kevin P.

 

[FANCYGUN]

Kevin
When starting to engrave with a power tool the best way to hold the tool is like a knife just as Don Glaser suggested. This way it is easier to push down on the graver tip and help control your cuts. I start my students this exact same way in my classes. It is not a bad way to work. I hold my handpiece differently because of my background and this is comfortable to me. I also suggest my students try holding the graver my way about halfway through the week long class. Some end up prefering to work this way and some do not. Do whatever works best for you. Often I will work with my finger on top when I am engraving a gun barrel as this helps me keep into the metal as i engrave. But on a flat surface I usually hold my thumb and index finger on the side.

 

[Kevin P.]

Thanks for that Marty. And thanks to everyone who have added their comments. This has given me some valuable reference points.
I haven't settled into a habit yet so I'm still exploring.
One thing I've noticed in practicing lettering is that a longer graver gives me better control than a shorter graver. But then I'll have to give the shorter graver another try.
I'm hoping that my continuing exploration of lettering will provide a break-through at some point. I also figure this practice should improve my graver control.
Kevin P.

 

[FANCYGUN]

Kevin
Don't make the graver too long. That will cause you to lose control also. I'm going through my classroom gravers righ tnow as I have a class in two weeks. Wow.some are now way too short and i will have to grind a few new ones.
But I am still fascinated by the original start of the thread in how graver length is making a profound difference in control of the on off feature of the airtact handpice. Now is this happening to all three size handpieces or is one in particular having this problem. No matter the length of my graver, that handle sits in my palm the same way and thats were the control button is set up.

 

[pilkguns]

Yep, I noticed right awy with the AirTact that the various graver lengths gave me start/stop issues, particulary with the vairous length gravers I have for sculpting. The Touch element is of course sensitive to how much pressure is applied and how it fits into the palm swell of your hand. It's nice that GRS supplied extra pads so you can customize them to your hand size and cutting style since any variation of palm pressure or angle of the palm on the element will change the startup characteristics, which of course a long graver will do. Honestly this is one the reasons that I really like the Lindsay Palm Control , since any pressure on the rear of the handle will equally activate the piston movement. But on the other hand, I really miss the the GRS Quick Change collets that I have all my gravers mounted in (or did anyway). I find myself at times contininuing to use the graver already in my Palm Control even though I know I want a slighly wider/rounder,sharper one but don't want to go through hassle of unscrewing the lock screw and puttting another one in. Whereas if I was using somethign with the QC collets, I would just snap what I wanted in there. One of these days I'm going to take the Palm Control apart and make a fitting to allow the QC collets to fit, even though it will lenghten the body of it somewhat.

Scott, "Thumb along the side" Pilkington

 

[pilkguns]

Steve just sent me this and says I should try some. I will

 

[Kevin P.]

"I find myself at times contininuing to use the graver already in my Palm Control even though . . . ."
I have an artisan which i really like, but I find myself using it less because "but don't want to go through hassle of unscrewing the lock screw and puttting another one in."
I really do like the feel of the artisan and I like the foot pedal.

So, Scott is that a picture of a Lindsay quick change?
Kevin P.