beegee
Elite Cafe Member
I think it shows that you can make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Why not? I think it's nicely executed and certainly adds value. You may have started a trend... 
9 MM Makarov
- Thread starter finn
- Start date
pilkguns
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Sam, I think you need to put Ron's essay into the tutorial page
PAUL LANTUCH
Elite Cafe Member
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2008
- Messages
- 208
Sorry if I have spoiled someone feelings in regard to Makarov pistol.
Almost 30 years ago I had left Soviet Union and have no regrets about this, my view on the goods from this country is very subjective.
My apology.
Almost 30 years ago I had left Soviet Union and have no regrets about this, my view on the goods from this country is very subjective.
My apology.
Roger Bleile
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Paul,
Your comment has stimulated a useful discussion regarding what kind of object to spend your time and effort decorating. I can understand your feelings for what was a "tool of opression" in your earlier life. I may well feel the same about anything from the Soviet era had I lived behind the "iron curtain."
Best wishes,
Roger
Your comment has stimulated a useful discussion regarding what kind of object to spend your time and effort decorating. I can understand your feelings for what was a "tool of opression" in your earlier life. I may well feel the same about anything from the Soviet era had I lived behind the "iron curtain."
Best wishes,
Roger
Dulltool
Elite Cafe Member
Paul,
I owned a 1991 Russian AN-2 biplane (PZL) and currently own a 1996 Russian Ural 650cc Motorcycle with sidecar... They are built a little bit on the rough side and they are old technology ( 1947 and 1939-55)...... but they work... and they work well.
Way back when I was in the Marine Corps (1968) I fought against the guys who had SKS's and AK-47's along with Makarov's so it took a long time for me to warm up to these guns.
Just for what it's worth,
I owned a 1991 Russian AN-2 biplane (PZL) and currently own a 1996 Russian Ural 650cc Motorcycle with sidecar... They are built a little bit on the rough side and they are old technology ( 1947 and 1939-55)...... but they work... and they work well.
Way back when I was in the Marine Corps (1968) I fought against the guys who had SKS's and AK-47's along with Makarov's so it took a long time for me to warm up to these guns.
Just for what it's worth,
Andrew Biggs
Moderator
Hi Paul
There's no need to apologise. I agree with Roger............You've raised a good topic for discussion ad it's through talking to one another and exchanging ideas and thoughts that we all learn something from each other. It all goes into the mix and gives us food for thought.
Now, the big thing is if we take any notice of it.........that is another story!!!
Cheers
Andrew
There's no need to apologise. I agree with Roger............You've raised a good topic for discussion ad it's through talking to one another and exchanging ideas and thoughts that we all learn something from each other. It all goes into the mix and gives us food for thought.
Now, the big thing is if we take any notice of it.........that is another story!!!
Cheers
Andrew
Christopher Malouf
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
This is a good discussion.
It's good to practice and to improve skills. Everything we do prepares us for the next challenge and some things just need to be treated as such. Expecting more ... especially if it comes from "others" will most likely disappoint. When not making money engraving on someone elses dime, engrave for yourself ... to better yourself and with the attitude that you are creating rather than destroying. Even if it is embellishing something that some find "offensive".
It's not too hard to figure out who can make the right choices to get a return on their investment and those whose projects will only bring a good return on investment in fantasy-land. I've got a pile a crap on consignment in fantasy land. I'd trade a hundred "atta boys" on my work for one good lecture on practical business sense (kudos to Ron S.). Getting great input and feedback comments on your work is wonderful and there's no better way to compliment the elation experienced when the mission is accomplished. There's also no greater letdown than that of the realization of a poor business decision, when selecting a canvas for resale, after the fact.
Dennis ... would you engrave your Ural?
What I think is "cool" isn't always practical from a business perspective. Sure my Harley looks great engraved but is and will always be a 1993 Harley which the bank will only loan a new buyer $7,000 to buy .... no matter how much engraving is on it or how many new engines and parts I've put on it.
If you guys want to talk about some Stasi pistol being a symbol of oppression .... let's ask a native American what he/she thinks about Winchester and the gun that "won the West". It's all relative and the same perspective always applies somewhere. I'm sure one of the forum "God's" will be posting right behind me with some sort "polite discourse" slamming me and my comment. Whatever.
Much of this discussion is more about life than engraving which very much levels the playing field as far as I am concerned. Holding hands and dancing around the May Day pole of politcal correctness is not something that I'm very good at anyway.
Oh and by the way ... while I am at it I'll be honest about Makarov.com in Cross Lanes. I haven't been in there in three years since they took ownership and sold everything else except their line of stamped steel assault weapons and accessories. Volume is their game and turning out as much as they can. Why? Because that's what sells here in WV ... cheap greasy food and guns. A good friend with the WVSP goes there frequently for two reasons ... to accessorize his tactical, urban assault shotguns and to arrest stupid rednecks attempting to pass fraudulent paperwork. I don't want to discount Ray's comment about the "cult like" following that these little pistols have gained and I'm not since I haven't been there in three years.
Later,
Chris
It's good to practice and to improve skills. Everything we do prepares us for the next challenge and some things just need to be treated as such. Expecting more ... especially if it comes from "others" will most likely disappoint. When not making money engraving on someone elses dime, engrave for yourself ... to better yourself and with the attitude that you are creating rather than destroying. Even if it is embellishing something that some find "offensive".
It's not too hard to figure out who can make the right choices to get a return on their investment and those whose projects will only bring a good return on investment in fantasy-land. I've got a pile a crap on consignment in fantasy land. I'd trade a hundred "atta boys" on my work for one good lecture on practical business sense (kudos to Ron S.). Getting great input and feedback comments on your work is wonderful and there's no better way to compliment the elation experienced when the mission is accomplished. There's also no greater letdown than that of the realization of a poor business decision, when selecting a canvas for resale, after the fact.
Dennis ... would you engrave your Ural?
What I think is "cool" isn't always practical from a business perspective. Sure my Harley looks great engraved but is and will always be a 1993 Harley which the bank will only loan a new buyer $7,000 to buy .... no matter how much engraving is on it or how many new engines and parts I've put on it.
If you guys want to talk about some Stasi pistol being a symbol of oppression .... let's ask a native American what he/she thinks about Winchester and the gun that "won the West". It's all relative and the same perspective always applies somewhere. I'm sure one of the forum "God's" will be posting right behind me with some sort "polite discourse" slamming me and my comment. Whatever.
Much of this discussion is more about life than engraving which very much levels the playing field as far as I am concerned. Holding hands and dancing around the May Day pole of politcal correctness is not something that I'm very good at anyway.
Oh and by the way ... while I am at it I'll be honest about Makarov.com in Cross Lanes. I haven't been in there in three years since they took ownership and sold everything else except their line of stamped steel assault weapons and accessories. Volume is their game and turning out as much as they can. Why? Because that's what sells here in WV ... cheap greasy food and guns. A good friend with the WVSP goes there frequently for two reasons ... to accessorize his tactical, urban assault shotguns and to arrest stupid rednecks attempting to pass fraudulent paperwork. I don't want to discount Ray's comment about the "cult like" following that these little pistols have gained and I'm not since I haven't been there in three years.
Later,
Chris
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Ray, I don't think any one of us older guys hasn't had experience with burn out. I found that there are different levels and different intensities of this condition. I had numerous episodes over the years, but was always eager to get back in after a little layoff. The last one I went through was a six or seven year ordeal even to the point that engraving was not anything I wanted to do anymore. I just tried to wait it out, but it has never come back as it always did before. Maybe it is age, not much compensation in most of the years, or maybe I am just getting cranky. Maybe it is the social attitude of appathy toward hand wrought items, I don't rightly know. Probably all of these things.
I do dearly love the art as much as ever, but my attention is more in the desire to help the younger guys get over these humps and make them aware of them. Mental adjustments and attitude play such a roll in this game as far as creativity is concerned. I have lost that powerful drive to do the work, but that is okay. I did this for myself for years. Now I can do what I do for someone else. That is just as satisfying, to see success without so much heart ache and ignorance, although there is still a lot of it all around us. That is probably the hardest part of this job, don't you agree? Just a little appreciation goes a long way sometimes ( in the way of material rewards ) and the satisfaction of doing a good job. This seems to be a lost part of human character these days. You know, crap it out, get the money and run., then leave the consumer with a piece of junk that breaks down on you or becomes obsolite before you even get used to it, and then has no sympathy for the problems they caused you.
Sounds like I am complaining, and maybe I am a bit, but that is just the way it is and the only way to change it is to make as many people aware as we possibly can and maybe we can start a fad. ........or trend. I think that is already happening.
I do dearly love the art as much as ever, but my attention is more in the desire to help the younger guys get over these humps and make them aware of them. Mental adjustments and attitude play such a roll in this game as far as creativity is concerned. I have lost that powerful drive to do the work, but that is okay. I did this for myself for years. Now I can do what I do for someone else. That is just as satisfying, to see success without so much heart ache and ignorance, although there is still a lot of it all around us. That is probably the hardest part of this job, don't you agree? Just a little appreciation goes a long way sometimes ( in the way of material rewards ) and the satisfaction of doing a good job. This seems to be a lost part of human character these days. You know, crap it out, get the money and run., then leave the consumer with a piece of junk that breaks down on you or becomes obsolite before you even get used to it, and then has no sympathy for the problems they caused you.
Sounds like I am complaining, and maybe I am a bit, but that is just the way it is and the only way to change it is to make as many people aware as we possibly can and maybe we can start a fad.
........or trend. I think that is already happening.
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Christopher Malouf
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Ron,
I'd just like to say that you are the "glue" that connects this virtual world of tips and tutorials with how to make it work in reality. We can learn to engrave, some faster than others, but you are one of the few here that has helped a new generation focus that passion into something truly productive.
It brightens my day to log on and see that you are on line and/or have posted. There's no reading between the lines and nothing is held back - just straight up honesty. Some others will hold on to the tricks of the trade as if they were money ... I see that as something which is counter productive to the survival of this art. If average folks can't make a living at it then it will never survive. I see great posts drift off to page infinity ... and forgotten in a month. Because of that, some give up but you keep at it - always giving 110%. That, in itself, is motivating.
In your very own words ... "Rock on!".
Chris
I'd just like to say that you are the "glue" that connects this virtual world of tips and tutorials with how to make it work in reality. We can learn to engrave, some faster than others, but you are one of the few here that has helped a new generation focus that passion into something truly productive.
It brightens my day to log on and see that you are on line and/or have posted. There's no reading between the lines and nothing is held back - just straight up honesty. Some others will hold on to the tricks of the trade as if they were money ... I see that as something which is counter productive to the survival of this art. If average folks can't make a living at it then it will never survive. I see great posts drift off to page infinity ... and forgotten in a month. Because of that, some give up but you keep at it - always giving 110%. That, in itself, is motivating.
In your very own words ... "Rock on!".
Chris
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Chris,"Counter productive" you say? Boy, are you on the mark Chris. That is the very thing that almost killed this bautiful art. No one would share their secrets and that is the result of fear rather than love, but you can't bind greatness even with the forces that might be working against you.
I think this was somewhat the result of the stock market crash of 1929, and people were working their way out of that, trying to protect their jobs etc., but I was one amongst others of the very few who came into the trade on an occupational level in 1962. The old masters were dying off and the ones who were willing to tell you anythiing were too busy just trying to make a living. It was rare if you could find someone who would "take you in", but I can understand the pressures of those days.
Mr. Prudhomme was one of the few of that earlier generation who saw the mistakes of the "Society of American Engravers" and did something about it. He warned us that we would fall if we created a clickish group. We have tried hard not to do that, because that organization died out.
I am wondering however, if this isn't a natural progression due to the long standing relationships we formed. We are all like family now, having connections that go way back. I am sure that many of the new visitors to our guild see this comaraderie and think we are a closed group and nothing could be further from the truth. We always invite everyone to come and be a prt of it. That is all it takes. It is a great invironment for students (friends) of the trade, and they are really the longevity of this art if they keep this attitude going. This trade is at it's greatest potential to be able to bring this back, for we have many now to educate the ones that come after us. The demand will continue to climb and diversity will be the thing that will allow us to be able to practice our skills and get compensation for it.
The creation of FEGA, and those willing to give selflessly of their time to teach, was the first step in opening up this art, because we could see what was happening to it. Look what happened then. All I can say is WOW! It is a good time for an engraver to be alive. It is so good to have people appreciate this art again. Engravers used to hold a high position as artists in the community, and that is coming back I think, because of the awareness that being open and approachable has caused...............Get out there! Show your work, meet people, and expose it to as many as you can find. Engrave on anything you can find, and teach them how it is done.
If you don't understand it now, you will see the power of grace through your work. This art has taught me much.
It brings me joy to see the interest and understanding of todays artists and the beautiful things flowing from the hands of those who love this art. To maintain this degree of quality within a culture of ignorance toward anything hand made, I have to admire your dedication and commitment, but it is the same commitment as I and others madebefore you. We are all the same. Nothing was going to stop us older guys and/or you guys in spite of the hardships, but then that is the power of love and passion isn't it? And it appears to me that I am in the best company a man could find himself in.
I do admire your strength and endurance. I hope to meet you all some day and shake your hands.
Thanks Chris for the nice comments, but I try to call it as it is, not as I want it to be, and it is selfishness that refuses to be honest. Truth is Love, and it cannot help but be honest.
Truth is available to us all if we will recieve it. It is the true source and depth of constructive creativity with such power, it will survive time and space. And I will add one thing to what you said "truly productive" ...............and enduring.
Peace, Through Truth, Wisdom, and Love....................................................
And back to you,................ Rock on, buddy!
Ron S
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