engravertom
Member
Hi Jason,
It sounds like you are in a similar place that I am, except I am working for a company as a full time engraver. I mean similar in the sense that being self employed doesn't make sense for me right now, although i did do that for a while, even achieving a full time income as a self employed engraver.
As others have said, the opportunities in the gun trade are very limited at this point. On the other hand, qualified gun engravers who are willing to work for a gun company are few in number as well. There are many qualified gun engravers, and no doubt there are many engravers that are willing to work for a gun company, but those who fit both categories seem to be few.
I work for Doug Turnbull Restoration, having just finished my 5th year with them. Seems hard to believe ... Anyway, before they hired me, they went 10 years without an in house engraver. And it wasn't because they didn't want one. They couldn't find the combination of the engraver with enough skill, speed, and the willingness to move to western New York to be an employee for someone else. The reason is pretty simple. Inexperienced engravers, as i was the first time I applied for the job back in 1995, are willing to go find a job where they can cut guns for a living. I wasn't good enough, and certainly not fast enough, to fill their need. years later, they actually came looking for me, and it was my turn to turn them down. I was happy in NC, and I was making progress as an independent engraver. I kept turning them down until then end of 2004.
What changed? Ironically, 2004 was my first year earning a full time income solely as an independent engraver. However, I had recently left a Church we had been in for over 8 years, my family had grown, and my wife was expecting our 5th child. Also, very little of my engraving had been on guns. Added to that was the fact that Western NY is a few hours closer to NJ where most of our family still lives, these factors influenced me to take the plunge. I visited the shop up here in August of 2004, and worked for a week. I met the staff, liked the folks, loved the scenery around the finger lakes, and actually impressed them with my abilities and quickness.
The first 9 months or so were like the honeymoon. I was learning, cutting guns everyday, and really enjoying it. The next 3 years were harder. I missed being self employed, and I was getting bitter about not being able to pursue higher end work. We don't do Italian or English guns, except to put finishes on them. Even if I was capable of doing that type of engraving work, it would take too much time away from really profitable stuff, like putting names in script on backstraps for $200 a pop. I could have pursued high end stuff on my own,and i should have, but our 5th child is a special needs boy, we homeschool the others, and I was still doing side work to make ends meet. That side work was jewelry stuff, monograms, coats of arms, etc, that pay well, and are fun to do, but don't get me any closer to Fracassi's universe, let alone his planet.
At the beginning in '09 I was ready to go back on my own, except I had little to no money, and a lot of my contacts were way off the radar screen. With the economy heading downhill, I wondered about the wisdom of that move also.
Anyway, I decided to just change my attitude. It wasn't quite that simple, but that is what it amounted to. I decided to accept my role in this company, and look at the positives.
Steady pay- even when they didn't have a full 40 hours of work this past year for me, they never sent me home, or cut any benefits, or let any employees go.
In spite of my frustrations, I am learning, and am a much better engraver than when I came here.
I engrave a ton of guns, which i wasn't getting on my own. The experience has been invaluable.
I have made some contacts, and at least a few people know who I am, or at least know about my work.
With the economy slowing down, more of the better work has been kept in house, so I have done more.
I don't want to uproot my family too many more times, so I am willing to wait for a better time to go on my own again, if I ever decide to.
I could go on and on, but I am very blessed to have landed in a good small company that has taken good care of me. It is far from perfect, and I have it better than the other guys, as I am the only engraver here, and I am largely left alone, in my little room listening to whatever i want to on the net all day.
No, I don't get to try high def bulino. No, I don't do much raised gold inlay. Yes, most of my shading is only a couple of lines per leaf. But for me, it works for now. I have to do a better job using my own time, and accept the fact that I am committed to my family right now in a way that i may not need to be 10 years from now. Then, all but the youngest will, be done with high
school. Lord willing, i will be 55, and still healthy enough to engrave. I will be in a better financial position, and more skilled and experienced than I am today.
It can work, to be an employee, but I have to make it work, and it had to be the right situation. I would have a hard time trying another place. If I had ti leave here, i would probably start on my own again, because I'm not good in the corporate type situation, unless it was very unique.
What I believe true about gun/knife engraving I also found to be true when i was working as a Jeweler/engraver years ago. I made too much on my own as an engraver to give it up to be a basic goldsmith apprentice/journeyman, but the jeweler didn't take in enough engraving to pay me as an engraver. I eventually morphed into a subcontractor. I did their work on site, including machine engraving, and did other clients work in my own shop. It was a great time. I was really arriving. But the lure of being a gun engraver ( plus health insurance!) lead me to New York. With my son needing care that cost well over 100,000 to start his first year of life, the insurance sure paid off...
Jason, it sounds like you would do well, in the right situation. If you can't find that to start with, keep after it on the side. ironically, it was the dogged determination to get good at lettering, which I used to hate, which helped me survive as a jewelry engraver, which really opened the door for me here at Turnbull restoration. So much of my work is lettering, and it is like taking a break to cut a backstrap with someones name, or to recut the tang of a Winchester 1886.
Thanks for listening!
I hope it gives you some perspective.
having been through it all so far, I'm getting optimistic about my future again!
take care,
Tom
It sounds like you are in a similar place that I am, except I am working for a company as a full time engraver. I mean similar in the sense that being self employed doesn't make sense for me right now, although i did do that for a while, even achieving a full time income as a self employed engraver.
As others have said, the opportunities in the gun trade are very limited at this point. On the other hand, qualified gun engravers who are willing to work for a gun company are few in number as well. There are many qualified gun engravers, and no doubt there are many engravers that are willing to work for a gun company, but those who fit both categories seem to be few.
I work for Doug Turnbull Restoration, having just finished my 5th year with them. Seems hard to believe ... Anyway, before they hired me, they went 10 years without an in house engraver. And it wasn't because they didn't want one. They couldn't find the combination of the engraver with enough skill, speed, and the willingness to move to western New York to be an employee for someone else. The reason is pretty simple. Inexperienced engravers, as i was the first time I applied for the job back in 1995, are willing to go find a job where they can cut guns for a living. I wasn't good enough, and certainly not fast enough, to fill their need. years later, they actually came looking for me, and it was my turn to turn them down. I was happy in NC, and I was making progress as an independent engraver. I kept turning them down until then end of 2004.
What changed? Ironically, 2004 was my first year earning a full time income solely as an independent engraver. However, I had recently left a Church we had been in for over 8 years, my family had grown, and my wife was expecting our 5th child. Also, very little of my engraving had been on guns. Added to that was the fact that Western NY is a few hours closer to NJ where most of our family still lives, these factors influenced me to take the plunge. I visited the shop up here in August of 2004, and worked for a week. I met the staff, liked the folks, loved the scenery around the finger lakes, and actually impressed them with my abilities and quickness.
The first 9 months or so were like the honeymoon. I was learning, cutting guns everyday, and really enjoying it. The next 3 years were harder. I missed being self employed, and I was getting bitter about not being able to pursue higher end work. We don't do Italian or English guns, except to put finishes on them. Even if I was capable of doing that type of engraving work, it would take too much time away from really profitable stuff, like putting names in script on backstraps for $200 a pop. I could have pursued high end stuff on my own,and i should have, but our 5th child is a special needs boy, we homeschool the others, and I was still doing side work to make ends meet. That side work was jewelry stuff, monograms, coats of arms, etc, that pay well, and are fun to do, but don't get me any closer to Fracassi's universe, let alone his planet.
At the beginning in '09 I was ready to go back on my own, except I had little to no money, and a lot of my contacts were way off the radar screen. With the economy heading downhill, I wondered about the wisdom of that move also.
Anyway, I decided to just change my attitude. It wasn't quite that simple, but that is what it amounted to. I decided to accept my role in this company, and look at the positives.
Steady pay- even when they didn't have a full 40 hours of work this past year for me, they never sent me home, or cut any benefits, or let any employees go.
In spite of my frustrations, I am learning, and am a much better engraver than when I came here.
I engrave a ton of guns, which i wasn't getting on my own. The experience has been invaluable.
I have made some contacts, and at least a few people know who I am, or at least know about my work.
With the economy slowing down, more of the better work has been kept in house, so I have done more.
I don't want to uproot my family too many more times, so I am willing to wait for a better time to go on my own again, if I ever decide to.
I could go on and on, but I am very blessed to have landed in a good small company that has taken good care of me. It is far from perfect, and I have it better than the other guys, as I am the only engraver here, and I am largely left alone, in my little room listening to whatever i want to on the net all day.
No, I don't get to try high def bulino. No, I don't do much raised gold inlay. Yes, most of my shading is only a couple of lines per leaf. But for me, it works for now. I have to do a better job using my own time, and accept the fact that I am committed to my family right now in a way that i may not need to be 10 years from now. Then, all but the youngest will, be done with high
school. Lord willing, i will be 55, and still healthy enough to engrave. I will be in a better financial position, and more skilled and experienced than I am today.
It can work, to be an employee, but I have to make it work, and it had to be the right situation. I would have a hard time trying another place. If I had ti leave here, i would probably start on my own again, because I'm not good in the corporate type situation, unless it was very unique.
What I believe true about gun/knife engraving I also found to be true when i was working as a Jeweler/engraver years ago. I made too much on my own as an engraver to give it up to be a basic goldsmith apprentice/journeyman, but the jeweler didn't take in enough engraving to pay me as an engraver. I eventually morphed into a subcontractor. I did their work on site, including machine engraving, and did other clients work in my own shop. It was a great time. I was really arriving. But the lure of being a gun engraver ( plus health insurance!) lead me to New York. With my son needing care that cost well over 100,000 to start his first year of life, the insurance sure paid off...
Jason, it sounds like you would do well, in the right situation. If you can't find that to start with, keep after it on the side. ironically, it was the dogged determination to get good at lettering, which I used to hate, which helped me survive as a jewelry engraver, which really opened the door for me here at Turnbull restoration. So much of my work is lettering, and it is like taking a break to cut a backstrap with someones name, or to recut the tang of a Winchester 1886.
Thanks for listening!
I hope it gives you some perspective.
having been through it all so far, I'm getting optimistic about my future again!
take care,
Tom
