Where I am

[jcarpenter]

I met mtgraver at a show a few weeks ago and he shamed me for lurking here and not posting my stuff. Well I am a newbie trying to learn so I will post where I am in this effort. I am doing Sam's scroll DVD and the sketch is my 8x11 of his intermediate phase. The practice plate is a 2x2 steel plate of the same thing. Please feel free to criticize and give advice as I am in this to learn.

John C

 

[Red Green]

Critique is a good method to find what is wrong with your work when you are not sure why you find it lacking. We are often blind to our work, we see what we want to see and make internal excuses to ignore errors. I do not like to point out negative aspects of the work or artwork of others, as it is usually met with resentment. If you really wish for a more open response from others I'd begin by pointing out problems and areas of work I felt need improvement, this self critique will lower the burden of the request and show others you want to improve your work from the critique and are not seeking approval. There is nothing wrong with seeking approval from others, it is just as powerful as critique, mixing them up is a quick way to misunderstanding and resentment so asking for critique should be done as an independent post. What I'm saying is don't ask for critique if you don't want it and are not ready to accept and use what you receive at face value.

Bob

 

[jcarpenter]

Bob,

Ok, that is fair. Here is my quick assessment.

Outline
Inner /leaves bottom and top are not graceful. Stems enter the scroll at the wrong angle. Leaf between the two scrolls is big and awkward looking. Leaves with point in the middle don't look right.

Shading
Shading generally looks like it is not in the right place or needs to have more area. Method of handling the veins in the leaves is inconsistent. Shading doesn't always flow with the shape of the leaf. Shading on the inside of the lower scroll looks wrong (maybe tapers to the wrong side?). There is a lot of area unshaded.

Bob, generally if I waited until I no longer see errors in my work, then I would never post. That is partly why I post rarely. I feel I have plenty to do just fixing the things I see easily. But I also could be working on minor stuff while missing big errors.

I have on my asbestos underwear. Please tell me what is wrong with it. Later when I am talented, famous and rich I'll go for the approval.

Thanks,
John C

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi John

Asbestos underwear.........that's good

Overall you have done a good job and have quite a bit right about it. The scrolls are well formed with no lumps or bumps in them....plus your cutting is pretty good.

There are a couple of things that let it down. The first is your leaf structure. The top leaves on the large scroll . They follow the backbone of the scroll........this looks clunky and out of place. Avoid doing this unless you really know what you are doing. Have them grow out from the scroll backbone. It is a far more pleasing effect.

The leaves need a bit more shape as they are a bit chunky and dead looking.

The shading....you just need a lot more of it and the shading starts from thin and ends in thick. Think of it as giving light and shadow to the design.

Having said all of that you have done well...........the one thing that would cure all of the above is to draw more. Pencil and paper will sort 99% of it out. Take a good look at some of the shading by Phil Coggan, Didyoung, Sam and others. Apply it to a leaf of your design and you won't go far wrong. This is how we all learn.

 

[Red Green]

OK, I'll say Andrew has it you need to draw more, but I think you should spend some time copying Master work. Your work has grace and flows well, you're putting much of yourself into the work and that is good but you're not ready to use it at the moment, first you should find order and understanding. Scrollwork designed for engraving is not a natural thing it is stylized and purposeful, there is room for self expression but within a set of somewhat obscure boundaries. Copying will help set you, center you into the best work available, I think you would benefit from the information you will gain, you have good control so your drawing should focus on good design.

Bob

 

[glstrcowboy]

Your shading lines are finer than the backbone and leaf lines, which is better than I am doing. The heavy lines seem to have an inconsistent depth/width. Overall though, you have the basics. From here it's just practice, practice, practice.

 

[jcarpenter]

Andrew, Bob, and glstrcowboy,

Thank you for your comments. What you are saying is to copy the masters until I can draw and maybe cut in their style. I can do that. The standards and rules are slowly revealing themselves. I keep a reference notebook with copies of engravings that are master engraving level. A lot of Sam's stuff is in there as I like his style.

I need to finish Sam's Scroll Essentials and then draw the masters as you say. Cutting is fun, drawing is hard. When starting this, the hope was that little drawing would be required as I am no artist. Doesn't look like that is the case. Much drawing to do, much learning to acquire, much practice needed. Life is grand. I love this stuff.

John C

 

[Red Green]

I suggested copying to find a place to start, a center to work from. To give you an understanding of the placement and purpose of the elements used to create a scroll and the scrolls placement in the design, a learn by absorption thing. When I examined the drawing one of the first things I noticed was the use of a digitized backbone line so I knew you had an understanding of shape and proportion, your hand drawing shows control and restraint. It seems to me you need direction and the Masters point the way. I think you should continue learning in every way you can, use copying as part of learning, copy what you 'love' and find out why, the why and how is the magic and it's hidden right in front of you.

Bob

 

[mtgraver]

Hey John,
Hope I haven't got you between a rock ....., lol, looking good, the important points have been made by others. Doodle some sweeping arced lines into a convergence, see what you see when doing this, then relate that to your engraving, you should quickly see how the number of lines and how they taper into a point that it gives depth, that is what you're doing with a leaf, forming the shadows. I've always thought of engraving is the art of illusion ...... that has many levels.
It was a great to meet you at the fort and a couple of good laughs never hurt. Welcome, I think things will speed up for you with all the support from the kind folks on here. The rest is up to the person, so enjoy the journey and I look forward to seeing the progress.
Best regards,
Mark

 

[monk]

i think any problems you have will evaporate with a bit of practice. as it is, not too shabby in my opinion.

 

[jcarpenter]

Yes Bob, I am using a digital scroll as a crutch for now. It has good form, lets me experiment quickly with layout and when printed does not erase with the drawn in details. That is actually a big help as I erase a lot. Thanks to everyone for the encouragement and advice. I believe that I am on the right path just need lots of practice. I retired last week so there is additional time in my future. Now in Scotland on a retirement celebration tour.

John C

 

[mtgraver]

John
Congratulations!! enjoy your trip, practicing can wait, lol.
Best regards,
Mark

 

[Red Green]

You should use any tool you find works well for you, all tools are 'crutches' we are weak and soft creatures, tools make us what we what to be. No matter how many times you pick up a pencil it is not an extension of you, it is no less a tool than a electronic digital interface. It is not the tool that is the artist or artisan it is the human hand, eye and mind that controls them. If you find snail slime is the best graver lubricant use it, if others don't think you should because it's not traditional, who cares?

Bob