western engraving

[Ray Cover]

Hello all,

I am wanting to expand my repretior of engraivng skills. I am becoming more and more interested in bright cut techniques like western engraving.

I have seen some of this that looks like flashy crap but I have recently seen some very fine examples of western engraving that was very well done and I found that apealing. When done right it is attractive.

Most examples I see (in my area at least) are very amaturishly done and looks like it was cut during an engraving race. Until recently seeing the well done examples I honestly have had limited respect for the style. Now that I have seen up close and personal what it can look like my interest is perked.

I have the Jeremiah Watt video but find a lot of the little secrets are left out. Even some of the big stuff is not explained in detail.

Can any of you who have done a lot of this recomend a book that covers this type fo engraving in detail?

I can cut western scroll but at this stage mine looks like the flashy crap. I want to find out what these other guys are doing to take this type of work to the level I recently saw.

Ray

 

[Mike Bissell]

Ray

You might try one of FEGA's video's It is #38 which is done by Diane Scalese. Diane explains the different tools that she uses and then demonstrates how do use them under the microscope. There is also a casting available of her work. I'm sorry Sam if this sounds too much like an advertisement but Ray asked.

Mike

 

[gail.m]

Ray,
I think if you check out Hitching Post Supply on the web you will see some of the better examples of Western engraving. I forgot some of the guys' names but most of them have websites. Maybe you could contact one of them (there is one in Montana that does beautiful work) as one professional to another. Maybe you could get him to join the Cafe?
Gail

 

[Ray Cover]

Gail,

The piece I saw that impressed me so much was from Montana. I suspect there are several good western style engravers from that region.

Ray

 

[bitmaker]

If you go to westernfolklife.org, atthe bottom of the page is Back at the Ranch. Click visit our virtual exibit, then tools of the trade, then cowboy chrome, then engraved silver colection. There are some amazing examples of western engraving. Some better than others, but not flash junk in my opinion, what ever that is worth

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Ray; Darren Reeves is a master at western style. He has given me some suggestions, I have studied some of his work and it's just about spotless. Sam does a Luminesque cutting that is very sculpted and impressive also. I also have Mr. Watt's video and it is excellent but it was done quite a few years ago and I noticed a few missed cuts. In my view I have discovered that if the scroll is flowing to the right your leaf cut would start with the left side of a flat graver and a cut made, then the right side to make a flared cut, then the right corner to cap off the cut. Then a gap is left so that a liner can be utilized and then a cap cup over the top of the liner cut using the left corner of the graver. The western style is not anything like the fabulous work your doing with bulino and inlay but it's fun much faster and very respectable for everyday wear. I have been experimenting with a 120 in place of the liner and using it to cap off the cuts on jewelry. I just finished a band I'll post it if I get a chance.
Just my opinion I'm sure there are many others.
Mike
Mike

 

[ken4c]

Hello Ray,
I thought that I would responded and I would agree that some western engraving is hard to look at ( when I am tired and not in the mood my engraving looks bad.) But when done correctly its beautiful to look at. As far as books or videos, Diane Scales from f.e. g.a. the book i look at for ideas is bit and spur makers in the Vaquero Tradition but it's not really a good example and it all runs a like. Some good study peaces to me are from Dave Anderson, Mark Dahl, Erine marsh and John C Ennis, you can see fair to good examples on the T.C.A.A. web cite my favortive is D. Anderson. Hope this helps.
Ray this only my opion of good work and may not be to others.
Thanks Ken

 

[Ray Cover]

Thanks for the tips guys.

What really impressed me about the buckle I saw was the liner work. The wriggles, spacing and bright cut groups were extremely accurate and clean but whoever it was that did that piece was a master at liner work. His/her liner work really shaded a contrast area to the bright cut groups.

On most of the Western work I see the liner cuts are inconsistent and tend to look like scaley shiny texture that really does not contrast against the brightcut groups but blends into it. This was done in such a way that the bright cuts and liner cuts contrasted against each other and each made the other stand out. This caused the actual artwork to show up rather than just look like a shiny facetted design.

It was the most impressive peice of western work I have seen.

Ray

 

[Markofx]

Hi Ray

If you want to see the newest way to bright cut, you only have to check out Ron Smiths way of doing it.
He put a slight radius on his flat graver which makes the cuts look sculpted and raised off the metal. I'm sure Sam has seen this and could give you some more information.
Mark

 

[Sam]

Mike: I consider that good advice, not an advertisement.
Ray: I've not seen Diane's fega tape, but if there's a better western engraver and teacher out there, I've not seen them. Her work and her character are both exceptionally high quality. You'd never regret taking her class.

 

[Ray Cover]

This is a personal interest thing for me. I don't plan to become a western engraver.

Besides I don't have time to take a class. I'm looking for info I can buy and have shipped to me. Mohamad has his hands way to full. No mountian trips I'm afraid.

Ray

 

[smays]

This buckle was made by Ernie Marsh for Hamley Leather Co.

I like his style.



View attachment 816

 

[D.DOUGLAS]

smays,I am working a style similar to this but didnt think i could really consider it western due to some background being removed. Western i suppose could go alot of different directions as long as it has some big flashy cuts. I have a buckle book at home that has a great example of what i consider western. I believe the one that really stood out his last name was Geist or something similar to that. I have piture of one i did with a punch dot backgrond. Yee Haw Doug

 

[pilkguns]

I like the style of the scroll too, but no way would it be classified Western. It looks that way because of object and the material, but it's not bright cut and wiggled at all. It's just traditional style engraving. If it looks like anything, it's a McKenzie knock-off.

 

[Ray Cover]

The one i saw was a traditional western scroll with wriggled spines, 3 cut bright cut group leaves and liner cuts between the bright cut groups. It did have a bit of liner crosshatching at the tips of the liner cut leaves.

It stood out to me I think because the pattern could be perfectly seen and was so perfectly cut. I suspect the second caused the first.

Ray

 

[Brian Hochstrat]

I started my engraving career as a bright cutter, and have since been trying to get away from it some, actually trying to get away from the whole western world a bit, but here is a money clip cut in the style Ray is talking about with one difference, the backbone was cut with a flat, instead of wriggled. The bright cuts are done by the three step method and then closed at the top,There is really no trick to it, highly polished rolled heel, the lining takes some practice, I use a curved 18-10. Coming in from the backbone, I start it on the inside corner and slowly roll it flatter to cover as much of the leaf as I can. On large leaves I will take two passes. I crosshatch with a 28-10. Hope that helps, Brian

 

[smays]

Yeah.. I understand its not traditional western style... but someone mentioned ernies work earlier and I saw a good example of it. Brian, what can I say... very impressed, clean, smooth... great job!!

Shawn

 

[Sam]

Check out this example of western engraving. I apologize for the bad photo, but it was a grab-shot at a show several years ago. I was looking at this buckle trying to figure out what looked different about it, then it hit me...there's no engraved backbone lines in the scrolls! I'd never seen this before, so I grabbed a quick photo. I really like the effect. Whoever did it really has excellent control with liners.

The shading in the flower at the lower left is done with a 'flutter tool'. Maybe Diane can elaborate on that. I've seen her do it, and it's really fast and produces extremely fineline shading. Before I'd seen it done, I would have bet a paycheck that it was done with a graver.

~Sam

 

[Marcus Hunt]

What on earth is a 'flutter tool' Sam? Sounds like something used in a porn movie!

Seriously, from what I understand 'Western engraving' evolved from regular engraving and the type of bright cut engraving used in the jewellery trade. The whole object of the thing was to work fast so out went cuting the spine of the scroll the standard way and in came wiggle cutting with a liner because it shaded and created a spiral in one cut. Likewise, the bigger leaves filling the scrolls were flange/flare cut with a bright polished edge of the graver to give as much 'bling for your buck' as possible.

I agree with Scott, Doug, that what you have there is a very nice buckel but in no way is it Western bright cut. On the other hand we almost have Western cutting turning full circle in Sam's example as the amount of shading and detail far exceeds any other examples of Western bright cut that I've seen before.

Can any one tell me where I can get a decent silver buckle blank from? The GRS german-silver ones are ok for practicing on but they're far from the best.

 

[Sam]

The 'flutter tool' is basically a sharp chisel with a radius. It's held upright and rocked back and forth quickly. That's how those shade cuts are made on the flower in the example in my previous post. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw Diane Scalese demonstrate it. I had never seen such a tool.

Maybe some of the western engravers can elaborate on my description of this tool and its use. / ~Sam