Western Buckle Fabrication

[cowboy_silversmith]

I am a new member to The Engraver's Cafe. I was browsing through some of the past threads and happened upon this particular one originally posted by Shawn Mays. I don't want to be presumtuous but if anyone is still interested in this subject matter, I believe I could shed even more light on how these buckles can be fabricated at such a low cost.

Greg Pauline
Cowboy silversmith & engraver

 

[bitmaker]

I'm always interested. I am just finishing a Santa Barbara cheek bit for the all around at the Stoyford, Ca. PRCA rodeo. Any advice I can get from someone as experanced as you would be great. I have a couple of skyline buckles I won when I used to ride saddle broncs in collage and the PRCA. I wonder if you made them?
Jim

 

[Chas]

You bet--just the ticket! Any shortcuts you can provide for fabrication would be greatly appreciated.
Charlie

 

[cowboy_silversmith]

I do agree with arnewd that it is a quality issue regarding the bridges between the letters. It only takes a few extra minutes to remove these bridges with a graver or a seperating disc attached to a flex shaft. I would also argue with Dmitry Martinov that the individual components can not be cast in any way shape or form. The reason being is the economics of a $400 - $600 trophy buckle. If you look at the sheer amount of gold used to fabricate these buckles there would be diminished potential for profit. Most of these buckles are fabricated with 1/10 10 karat gold fill, a bi-metal material. And as we know a bi-metal material can not be cast. Therefore many of these components are die struck with accuracy and detail. Now making these dies comes down to economics once again. A) How many trophy buckles are to be made. B) Can these dies be multi purpose and worked into other buckle designs, etc. Now the many different types of dies that are employed is really very awesome. One type of die making process especially which has launched law suits within the cowboy silversmithing industry is very slick in particular. Using this very slick process, one can engrave a master template of a flower and scroll in the most intricate of detail and then reproduce them by the 100's and you could swear that they were hand engraved with all the brilliance of the original bright cutting, lining or single pointing. Now you're probably thinking and asking the following, "That's all well and good, but what good does that do to have a piece that is fully bright cut and single pointed and yet it has not been silver soldered at 1200 degrees to a base or not even polished for that matter?" And "Wouldn't the high temperature of soldering frost the silver or what abot fire scale?" And "Then you would have to pickle the heck out of it and polish the darn thing and risk losing all that beautiful detail that existed in the first place. The answer is an atmospheric oven with an operable conveyor belt. In one end, out the other with no fire scale or discoloration and ready for a rouge job. Amazing!!! Now there are even buckles that can be fully minted in this process as well. For example let's imagine a 3 inch by 4 inch oval buckle with a rope edge. It also has a top and bottom banner along with a rodeo motif, let's say a bull rider, in the middle of the buckle. Now if you were really brainstorming, you would involve a photo-etcher and ask if you could get silver bases with the banners and motif positioned in just the right places. In the mean time, you are making your really slick dies. The die would actually consist of two parts. The first part of the die would contain the rope edge, the two banners and get this!, the brilliant bright cutting and lining as well!!! Unbelievable!!! Now the first part of the die also contains a round cavity that accepts the secondary die, the bull rider or any other motif for that matter. Then the whole piece of metal material is placed on top of the die and inserted into a press that exerts a massive amount of tons per square inch. The buckle is then inserted into a trim die and gets rid of the outside excess material. You then dome the thing in another press. With jigs that hold the belt buckle hardware in place, you then send it through an atmospheric oven. Wait for it to come out the other end then rouge it. Presto, magico! you have a finished minted buckle. I thank the good lord above that there are still people in the world who want that custom piece or a part of very limited run item which these die processes are not economically feasible to produce. I hope this has shed a little more light on the subject for those of you out there who were interested.

Best regards to all,
Greg Pauline

 

[webad2006]

I'm curious about how they hold all of these different findings in place on some of the more complex handmade buckles? and do they stage the soldering hard, med, soft to keep things from coming loose?

I currently use only soft solder, and hold findings in place with surgical forcepts. It does'nt take long to have a whole bunch of those things in the way though, and ya can't see whats going on.

 

[Dmitry Martinov]

cowboy_silversmith For example all my buckles are made in only one piece. I´m not using any ready findings or stamped letters. It´s only because this is interesting to me to make the piece completely handmaded. Clients knows that and that why they are asking to me to make one of this. I´m never ask to pay the price, I name it and that all. And there is completely different question if some day I will have the order to make 5 or 10 similar buckles. Then off course will be the casting and stamping of some detailes.
webad2006 each master used to do all soldering with his individual way. It can be soldered, welded and laser welded. I use hard solder in all material connections.

 

[cowboy_silversmith]

I do not know what the magic number is that makes it economically feasible to produce these dies that I described but I would almost bet my bottom dollar it would be in the hundreds to justify the processes involved. So the end result is hundreds of components and buckles that are identically replicated from every dotted i, to every cross hatched leaf. In which case their are many owners of the same identically massed produced items. That is why I exclaimed, "I thank the good lord above for the people who prefer a custom made piece or an item from a limited run."

The buckle pictured below was completely hand fabricated and fully hand engraved. No die processing, no stamped parts, period. The buckle base material, half bead wire border and the inside oval border are sterling silver. All lettering, flowers and scrolls are 1/10 10 karat gold. The bull rider is cast from solid 10 karat gold (my cost was $76.00). After having designed the layout for this buckle, I sat down to hand saw each individual letter, flower and scroll with a 4/0 jewelers saw blade. Once finished I threw all the components in a pickle solution. I formed the sterling half bead wire around an oval mandrel (made by hand). I then silver soldered all components to the sterling silver base.Throw it in the pickle again. Once out of the pickle, I domed the buckle. At this point if there were any small gaps where the silver solder had not completey filled in the soldered overlays, I would mark the spot(s) with a black sharpie. I would then heat up the entire piece and flow the silver solder to fill any gap. While still at temperature I will flip it over and place my buckle hardware at the desired locations and add silver solder. Quench and put it in the pickle again. At this point some people would dip the entire buckle in a heated nitric acid bath for a few seconds to rid the silver of any fire scale (I am opposed to this and skip this step. If you do this !!! Be Careful !!!). I then remove the connecting bridges with a graver or seperating disc (Bridges are what ties the lettering together and keeps them centrally located to one another as they are silver soldered to the base. You can add these bridges as you saw the lettering with a jewelers saw). Polish with bobbing compound and wash. Polish with white diamond and wash. Engrave and set stones. Matte the background with whatever stippling tool or reciprocating device you may have, even a dremel hand held electric engraver does a nice job. If you have any firescale, remove it with a graver or burr, otherwise the matting will only serve to highlight the color of the firescale. Rouge and clean. In this case I applied a blackened background and I perform this step last.

webad2006 To answer more directly your questions. I basically draw a grid pattern with a 9H leaded pencil to the face of the buckle to be soldered. I also have the same grid in place on the artwork for reference as I solder all components in place. I do not use jigs, tweezers or forceps to keep components in place. I use primarily 3 tools when soldering. Tweezers for placing the overlay on the buckle in the general location it is to be soldered. Long needle nose pliers: sometimes in the course of soldering a brigde is too thin and the lettering will become slightly askew. I use the pliers to lighly pinch or seperate in either direction. Last is the tool that does 95% of the work. It is a simple tool you can make. I used an old scribe and then used 75% silver solder to apply another piece of steel round wire (about 2 inches long) to form a Tee shape. I then stick the other end into a piece of wooden dowl for a handle. Once side of the tee is sanded flat with blunted edge. This end serves to hold pieces in place as I apply heat for the silver solder to flow. The other ens is sanded to a point like a scribe. This end serves as poker to move the pieces around by their edges (not on the face or you will mar the face of your overlays). It also serves as a leverage point after having tacked down a corner and you want to move the piece a little this way or that way (takes practice). I use silver solder 99.5 % of the time. Depending on the size, expanse or number of the overlay, I may apply with assorted percentage silver solders. Most times I can silver solder using just 55% silver solder. The trick is to sparingly apply the right amount of solder. Too little and you will spend all day heating the piece and risk fire scale. Too much and the piece wants to float around and will move at the most inooportune moment. With just the right amount of solder you can hold (for example) a banner at one corner with the blunted end of the tool I described above and tack it down. Move your flame away and judge if you like its location. If yes, tack down the opposing corner and then work your way back to the first welding point. If you don't like it's location, using the pointed end of the soldering tool place it against an edge of the banner. As you bring the silver solder up to temperature and you have reached it's flow point ... gently nudge, push, pull or leverage the banner to the desired location. Once accomplished, proceed by tacking the other end down with the blunted end of the tool and work your way back to the original weld point. Then continue with the rest of your overlay in like fashion until all pieces are soldered in place.

Side note: You can purchase 1/10 10K that has a solder flushed back side. The manufacturer of this product puts a consistent amount of solder that flows very readily and cleanly. Typically it comes with 45% silver solder, very easy flow. I try to stay away from soft solder as it does not perform as well under stress and time. Silver soldered items stay put.

Best regards to all,

Greg Pauline
Cowboy Silversmith & Engraver

http://hiramwest.com/guthrie_01.jpg

 

[cowboy_silversmith]

Oops- I did it wrong I'll try again

 

[D.DOUGLAS]

Greg, thanks for taking the time to explain everything. I used to do a little silver soldering. I am going to have to give that t soldering pick a try on some buckles i am planning in the future. Great looking work. So nice and clean. D.Douglas

 

[Steve223]

Thanks Greg that was very informative. I am fixin to bild some headstall buckles and im gunna try your system.
Steve

 

[webad2006]

Greg,

Great work, that is a very pretty buckle. I dream about being able to do work like that someday! I was wondering, did you use a hard solder on that particular piece? and how do you dome the buckles after they are decorated without damaging the findings? I currently cut, file, dome, then decorate and finish. I do have some problems getting the findings to lay flat though, and thats why I was trying to clamp them in place.

Any help from someone such as you, who has apperently mastered this type of work would be graetly appreciated.

Bill.

 

[Dmitry Martinov]

Guys! what *dome* process means. I can´t find proper translation.

 

[Peter E]

Dmitry,
"dome" is to give the buckle the curved shape from a flat piece of metal. Hope that explains it so that you understand.

Peter

 

[DARNEW]

Shawn, The buckel on the left is hand built. This buckle has the tabs between the letters to keep them all in place while soldering them down to the base. A good craftsman would take a small flat engraver and knock the tabs out after the buffing, but before the background is stippled. All the letters, scrolls and beads are solderd on. You can buy pretinned flat stock in 10K filled and with additional solder chips layed along side the letters you can get a very clean solder job. The figure on the buckle on the left buckle is a casting or flat stock engraved, also solderd down. All the scrolls are also hand sawed out and solderd in place like the letters and then engraved to britten them up. The berry edge is a pattern you can buy and then also solderd down. By using differant grades of solder like the hardest at first then progressing to the softest for your last item to be solderd, you can solder the whole buckle together. The other buckle has die struck parts. I have personaly built buckles like these using a mix of both methods. The figure and scrolls could be die struck. Die stricking is for mass production wich Gist dose a lot of, but they also build some very nice hand made buckles. Good luck. You will need to master not only your engraving talents but your craftmanship and art work to build buckles like these and yes a buckle hand built takes a lot of work and can be very expencive depending on the material you use, but like gun engraving there are people and rodeo asscociations that will pay for this kind of work.

Doug

 

[cowboy_silversmith]

D.Douglas Let me know how it turns out, hope it works for you. Patience and practice. Thanks for the compliment too.

Steve I wouldn't mind seeing the headstall buckles when they are finished too. I always enjoy looking at other craftmens handywork.

Bill I was not knocking you for the way you approach soldering overlays to your base material, not in the least. It's just that when I worked at Skyline Silversmiths, they were a custom production shop. They had a published price list which in turn put time constraints on each fabrication process, up to and including the engraving. There were limited orders that came through the shop that enabled us to spend our time lavishly and do our finest work. Clamping all the overlay would be very time consuming as opposed to laying the components down on the base as you go along. Also the clamps and tweezers act as a heat sink and in turn it takes just a little longer to get the pieces up to temperature. Not much longer but in a production mode it makes a difference. Addressing your question about the overlay components laying flat. Because of the high heat, the overall expansive areas involved and the soft metals we employ in our craft, there is always the risk of distortion or even warping. This is how I avoid this problem when I am silver soldering buckles. I apply the heat from beneath the buckle. I have a large rigid mesh screen with a hole cut to size so there is no obstruction to allow my flame to touch the base of the buckle.
The next part is just about practice evolving into experience. If you heat the piece to slowly and a lot of time is expended, the silver base tends to want to sag. If on the other hand you heat too fast or at too high a temperature, the silver base wants to warp rather quickly. So let's say I am soldering a banner to the base of a trophy buckle, ok. I would position the part of the buckle, which is going to receive the banner, over the open portion of my soldering screen. Heating from the bottom with a nice warm flame with a little yellow showing (I use oxy/propane). Once the flux has become fluid and up to temperature I then position the banner into place with my soldering tool to begin tacking down one corner. Simultaneously I reduce the size of my flame and to the point where the yellow almost disappears (more oxygen rich). As the solder looks like it is coming to temperature, I pull the flame away momentarily and then back to the the base again. I repeat this manuever a couple of times just until the solder begins to flow. For me, using this technique, the solder just does'nt all flow all at once and does not create a big puddle of solder. Once you have a puddle the piece wants to float around and is difficult to control. In addition you'll have a big mess to clean up afterwards. Using this technique, I then tack down the other corner. Then I start working my way back towards the first tacked corner but now I don't move the flame away from the base as much. I continue to heat the piece and more so in the direction I want the solder to flow. When the base is up to temperature and the solder is at melt point, the silver solder will follow the heat source. Practice keeping your flame just ahead of the solder flow and you will have performed a very clean soldering. By the way, I used 65% silver solder for the bullrider as it is overlayed onto a piece of 22 gauge sterling. The borders were 55% silver solder. All the gold is 45% silver soldered (solder flushed at the mil).

Best regards,
Greg Pauline

 

[cowboy_silversmith]

Doug Let me defend my reason for cutting the "tabs" before the polishing process. When removing the tabs with a graver or a seperating disc, there is a tendency for an ever so slight burr to appear or the metal is stretched at the point where the tab and the letter intersected (point of removal). If I polish after the tabs are removed, these small burrs and tiny distortions are polished and burnished away simultaneously giving a nice even look to all polished surfaces. Whereas if I cut the tabs after I have polished the piece, these burrs and small distortions stand out from the burnished edges surrounding the area where the tab removal has been applied. Also if you leave the tabs on the buckle for the polishing process, if you're not careful with how much pressure you are applying with the buffing wheel, the points where the tabs meet the letters ... streaks or grooves can be imparted onto the face of the letters. This means more clean up if you're anal about these type of small quality issues (which I am).

Best Regards,
Greg Pauline

 

[Steve223]

Greg ill post them when im done but they wont stand up with your work or anybody elses on here i am a RANK Amature. But the feed back will be great.
Steve

 

[ken dixon]

Greg, Do you use boric acid for firescale prevention? And do you have any soldering tips for twisted silver wire rope on buckles? Thanks Ken

 

[Patternweldor]

Greg. Fantastic work, so precise and balanced, I know what you mean about the pieces floating when they have a little excess solder, makes it a real challenge at times. Great tips on the soldering...

Thank-you for taking the time to give the information to us...
Chris..

 

[webad2006]

Greg,

Thanks for all the great info, I to would like to know your thoughts on doing rope edges, or beaded borders.