Question: Vintage Metal Finishing class

[Latergaters]

Trinidad State College in Colorado had a series of summer programs that include everything from gunsmithing to leather holster making. I actually found out about GRS from the materials list of their engraving classes. Anyway, I was thinking about taking a buckle making class or something but I noticed they were offering a firearms finishing class and I think it may help me a lot.

I'm wondering if anyone has taken one of their classes or has any thoughts on if this class would be worth it or not. Thanks in advance. Here is a description of the course.


Vintage Metal Finishing $380 or 2 credits
May be taken toward the Gunsmithing Fine Arts certificate in place of
Alternative Finishes
Learn the art of good quality vintage metal finishing from Chuck Grace, President of the American
Custom Gunmakers Guild. A one-week course covering the correct procedures employed to
“French Grayâ€￾ & “Rustâ€￾ blue vintage and modern firearms as well as other vintage finishes.
Chuck Grace is a charter member of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild. He has been making
stocks and custom firearms since 1974 and is a 1973 graduate of Trinidad State Junior College.
riflemakerone@yahoo.com719-846-9435 (home)
Chuck Grace

A MESSAGE FROM THE INSTRUCTOR: The Vintage finishing class will involve metal finishes on
guns appropriate to High grade firearms of a by-gone era and what top grade metal smiths are using
today on Modern guns. Over half of the class time will be taken up with the preparing of the metal. Hand
filing and polishing of parts, then on to the actual coloring of the metal. Rust bluing, both express and
slow rust and nitre bluing. And finally polishing out actions bright after all bluing is done and fire arm is
assembled.

 

[SamW]

Hi Neisha, It really depends on what you plan to do in the future. I have known Chuck for many years and he is very knowledgeable on the subjects, as well as a real gentleman. Those are all areas that are good for an engraver to have experience with and the metal prep alone is very important not only for final finishing but for proper engraving. I taught several advanced engraving classes there in the late 80s and early 90s. I think Marty Rabeno has been teaching there in the NRA program the past few years. I guess what I am saying in a round about way is that it should be a good course for you to take.

Hopefully, others will chime in with their take on the subject.

 

[FANCYGUN]

Neisha
I 'm with Sam on this one. What do you really want to be doing down the road. Do you want to improve your engraving skills or become more versatile in various aspects of working on custom guns. The program at Trinidad is a good one and very long established. It's also very close to you. I personally think you should work on expanding your engraving skills. If you are going to be at the FEGA annual in Las Vegas, I know for a fact that Chuck has a table at our show and if you are there you can discuss his class and the other offerings that are available through the school. I have taught engraving there but am not teaching there this summer. Nor am I presently teaching at GRS anymore. Taking classes is a great way to learn new things and meet new people with a common interests. But in the long run it still boils down to practice, practice, practice. Oh and making mistakes to learn from. So just have fun with it.

 

[DKanger]

Neisha,
I may be wrong but I seem to remember that your husband is also involved in the business. If so, I think he would benefit from attending the course and could pass the parts specifically oriented towards engraving on to you. This might add specialty services to your shop from which you both could benefit.

 

[John B.]

Neisha,
I was privileged to teach both Basic and Advanced Engraving in the NRA Summer classes at Trinidad State College for 27 years.
Trinidad runs a fine program in their first class facility. My friend Chuck Grace is an outstanding instructor.
He is a long ago graduate of the school. A metal finishing class with Chuck would be of great value to any engraver or gun worker.
As would and engraving or drawing class with "Fancygun " Marty Rabino when he teaches there.
John B.

 

[Latergaters]

Neisha,
I may be wrong but I seem to remember that your husband is also involved in the business. If so, I think he would benefit from attending the course and could pass the parts specifically oriented towards engraving on to you. This might add specialty services to your shop from which you both could benefit.

I would LOVE for Karl to take a class like this and start doing firearms restoration but his complete lack of attention to detail is legendary among his close friends. My husband is the best husband in the world and I am so lucky to have him, heck he takes a week off work every year to homeschool the kids while I go to Kansas. However with that said, he isn't allowed to touch my tools or paint anything. I barely let him touch my car. The cussing and breaking of stuff when he does detailed work has been known to make those nearby weep (not me I'm used to it now).

Oddly the lack of attention to detail does not extend to reloading. He double checks every single round.

 

[Latergaters]

I am enrolled in Sam Alfano's Oct Drawing and Engraving of scrolls class and I practice as often as I can but lately I've had more time to draw than engrave. My goal is to become a well rounded engraver which includes metal prep, design, engraving and metal finishing. I don't expect it to happen over night and without a great deal of practice. My long term goal is to become proficient enough that when my kids leave the nest (the youngest is 4 now) I will be able to engrave well enough to make ends meet if something were to happen to Karl.

I know that your engraving is only as good as your canvas and I've had a lot of opportunities to work on firearms that need quite a bit of prep to even think of engraving. I'm more interested in the metal prep than in the finishing. Fortunately I still have some GI Bill left to use and I could use it to pay for the class. I also want to engrave jewelry but by focusing on firearms at this point I seem to get more support out of Karl.

Before I had kids I was a commercial insurance agent and while I enjoyed it well enough I have learned the joy of not working in an office and being my own boss. Kids will only be small for a time and I need to look to my continuing development. Before I started engraving I would take classes to maintain my insurance license, I still take classes but now I love what I'm learning.

 

[Brian Marshall]

My take on this is that you should:

Continue to draw, buy books - read them, videos - watch them 6+ times, castings - study them and take classes or workshops in related skills for the rest of your life. (Especially those who are teachers themselves!)

My friend J.C. Randell used to say that EVERY piece of work you engrave is a "practice plate" for the next job - even if the value is getting up over $10,000.

When you stop improving or no longer love what you do - it's time to put the gravers down and go find another career.


95% of the houses I go to visit these days have a huge big screen HDTV (some have 3 or more) and not one book in sight... and those TVs can't hold a candle to the distractions caused by "smart" phones. Both dumb you down... and rob you of hours that could/should be better spent.


Brian

 

[SamW]

Well said Brian...I dumped TV years ago and my phone is so smart it stays at home on the wall where it belongs. I read about an hour almost every night (as long as I can keep my eyes open).

As for engraving...every job IS practice for the next. And that makes it all so interesting!

 

[Brian Marshall]

Thanks Sam,

No TV since '88 and that was for the kids room by mamas order, not mine. Cell phone stays in the glove box of the SUV.

3 people have that number - so it's pretty easy to guess who I am ignoring.


Laptop in the shop behind my bench where I can't see it.

And towers in my office and the apprentices shop upstairs.

Mostly for manipulating and printing transfers or researching new design ideas.

Oh yeah, and for buying used books off Amazon or other purveyors of "pre-owned" literature.

My once a month treat. New books about twice a year... gettin' pretty pricey...


Brian


The throne room is sacred and will NEVER be invaded by phones or screens of any kind. Nor will the bedroom.

Tool porn in the bathroom - and books stacked by the bed. Keep learning, thinking or dreaming up something every minute you are awake.

 

[Latergaters]

I'm glad there are people out there that keep it "pure" but if I were to follow that path I'd be single and childless. I met my husband online. Hell, we got engaged online while he was in Iraq. We had been talking about getting married and I mentioned that if we wanted a wedding in June I had to start planning soon. He emailed me his credit card number....romantic I know.

If it wasn't for the internet and screens I wouldn't ever have found out about GRS or any of you and I probably wouldn't even be engraving.

My kids learned the difference between zooplankton and phytoplanton from watching an episode of Magic School Bus on Netflix.

There are many fantastic engravers and artists that have worked a lifetime at their craft who are able to create beautiful masterpieces without using a computer or even drawing on anything other than the piece to be engraved. That's amazing and I hope to get there someday. However, I also realize that customers of the future are going to be so used to having a full rendering prior to purchasing that an engraver who can do so will be the norm.

I always think how amazing it was that my great grandma grew up when horses were more common than cars and that her first house was a cabin without running water. When she passed the world had completely changed but one of my cousins filmed her telling the stories for me to watch on my screens. I LOVE that I was able to use Ancestry.com on my phone to track my family history back to to revolution and found the records of an ancestor who joined the continental army on July 4 1776.

Screens aren't inherently bad and their demonization is missing the point just as those who demonize guns are missing the point.

And believe me I get the irony of where this conversation is taking place. I appreciate constructive input but I'm not sure how a question about a SPECIFIC class came to this point.

 

[Brian Marshall]

I am in front of a screen as I write this. I too do a ton of research into things that interest me. I've left my tracks all over the Internet.

But not a screen that takes up half a wall and is usually tuned to some film directors idea of "adventure" or "reality" shows about someone elses life. Simply different choices. My own life takes up all my time!

I've certainly learned a ton of stuff from this forum over 10 years. And maybe I've contributed a little bit here and there. I hope so...

My point was - take the class if it is in any way related to what you do or intend to do. Some of them, like Sam Welch's class or Eric Gold's don't ever come around again. Both were well worth the investment!

Read the books, watch the videos (obviously, on a screen), buy the castings, etc. - if your goal is to become the best engraver you can be.

Sorry if it got a little muddied up there at the end. Simply not a fan of the Kardashian family displayed on on a 4 x 6 foot screen... (dunno if that's even the right spelling? Never bothered to learn the first names)


Brian

 

[Latergaters]

I agree, the Kardashians are a pox on the land.

 

[Latergaters]

Trinidad State has a booth at SHOT show. I took it as a sign I needed to sign up for the class. Now I need to get my tools and project pieces together.

 

[Marrinan]

I believe that Brain Marshall's programs could provide some of best educational opportunities' in the metal fields as we;; as several; out side metals. ask if he can get a few students together he is ready to teach and help. He is a highly skilled in the manual arts. Fred