Help, please: Trying to Find Traditional, Long Term Educational Opportunity

[Xenophon]

Hello,

I am twenty seven year old man from New England looking for more pureform educational opportunities here in the states and abroad. I have been improving my hand engraving with my own small home setup part time for the past two years, but still have not cobbled together any decent ability. I have taken classes from the New Approach School for Jewelers in Tennessee- but that is as far as my education goes. I can feel the clock ticking on my twenties and need some kind of hardcore traditional apprenticeship.

I have been looking into the more traditional European education, only because it offers the level of craftsmanship I aspire to as well as the styles and mediums I appreciate; as well as the fact that it is very intense. In my studies Cesare Giovanelli repeatedly pops up, as well as a school in Liege which I am having a a hard time trying to find the name of. I am trying to assess my options and hopefully get a break before the summer winds down. I have pestered established engravers, and anyone whose work I like and whose ear I can bend on Instagram. All I have to show so far are dead ends.

I am really on a crossroads with this whole thing, whether to fully devote my energies to it or abandon this craft and move on entirely. I really cannot go on just doing this in a vacuum however; and I certainly cannot stand my piddling pace thus far.

If someone could provide me with the name of the Belgian school, I would appreciate it. If someone could tell me where to look for a solid apprenticeship or a good schooling, I would appreciate it. If someone could inform me with any general pointers I would appreciate it. If someone could answer questions I am too foolish to ask, I would appreciate it even more so- but be forewarned your wisdom maybe lost on me.

 

[monk]

welcome. start reading thru the forum . there's a post "doc" education level here just waiting to be absorbed by anyone wanting to learn.

 

[Aventuraal]

If memory serves me, it is called "Ecole de Fin Mechanique" (spelling is a guess, high school french) and it's in Liege, Belgium.

 

[Roger Bleile]

If memory serves me, it is called "Ecole de Fin Mechanique" (spelling is a guess, high school french) and it's in Liege, Belgium.

Also known as "Leon Mignon."

 

[Roger Bleile]

There is a very fine school in Suhl, Germany, Berufsfachschule für Büchsenmacher und Graveure.
The engraving master is Hendrik Fruehauf. He is one of the world's top gun engravers and speaks English.

Here is a link: Ausbildung Graveure an der Berufsfachschule in Suhl (buechsenmacher-ausbildung-suhl.de)

I can highly recommend this or the Leon Mignon school.

 

[DaveatWeirs]

I don't have any particular advice on which schools or courses to go on, but I think it's important to say that, while it may feel like the clock is ticking on your 20s, time isn't running out. I 100% felt the same at 27, but you're not going to miss your chance if you don't get it all done before you're in your 30's.

Hell, I didn't start engraving properly till I was 35-ish, and before that I was a goldsmith who played around with gravers every so often. And I only started training at goldsmithing that when I was 26.
Don't stress yourself about feeling like you're going to miss out if you don't get your whole plan sorted before some arbitrary age/date.

Everyone misses out by not getting stuff sorted earlier in life, and no one misses out by not getting stuff sorted earlier in life
Should I have taken the plunge when I was 26 and realized I loved engraving more than goldsmithing? hell yea, but I didn't know then what I knew when I was 35 so I legit couldn't have. I also should have bought bitcoin that time I was offered 10 of them for $15 but that's not how life works.
I know you'll probably worry about it anyway but, try not to, it'll work out.

This is very rambling but, I dunno man, I just remember what it was like, that weird low-key constant stress of 'falling behind', and I kinda wish someone took a minute to just say it'll be alright and I'm not falling behind at life cuz there is no actual markers to hit and no specific times to hit em.

 

[mtlctr]

At 74, I’m still sortin.

 

[AllenClapp]

It may be possible to take yourself upwards by several levels by setting a schedule and taking several courses a year at GRS in Emporia, Kansas. They go from beginner level up to master level training. You could schedule a series of courses of increasing complexity and/or different skill sets, with time off between them for working on lessons learned and experimenting with development of your own styles of work. This may help you discover the type of work that will interest you the most and help you raise your skill levels in that direction. Their master-level instructors are incredibly helpful. The teaching facilities were recently expanded and they continually upgrade the course offerings.

 

[Sim]

Section_Armurerie - CES Léon Mignon

leonmignon.be

 

[gcmeleak]

I'm 63 and still working it out as well. I didn't even begin to draw until I began engaging. After two years of engraving were are you at, your skill levelAre you skilled in art, drawing, painting?

 

[Xenophon]

I would like to thank everyone for the replies so far. I really was struggling trying to find that Belgian School. Thank you to everyone who mentioned it.

I don't have any particular advice on which schools or courses to go on, but I think it's important to say that, while it may feel like the clock is ticking on your 20s, time isn't running out. I 100% felt the same at 27, but you're not going to miss your chance if you don't get it all done before you're in your 30's.

Hell, I didn't start engraving properly till I was 35-ish, and before that I was a goldsmith who played around with gravers every so often. And I only started training at goldsmithing that when I was 26.
Don't stress yourself about feeling like you're going to miss out if you don't get your whole plan sorted before some arbitrary age/date.

Everyone misses out by not getting stuff sorted earlier in life, and no one misses out by not getting stuff sorted earlier in life
Should I have taken the plunge when I was 26 and realized I loved engraving more than goldsmithing? hell yea, but I didn't know then what I knew when I was 35 so I legit couldn't have. I also should have bought bitcoin that time I was offered 10 of them for $15 but that's not how life works.
I know you'll probably worry about it anyway but, try not to, it'll work out.

This is very rambling but, I dunno man, I just remember what it was like, that weird low-key constant stress of 'falling behind', and I kinda wish someone took a minute to just say it'll be alright and I'm not falling behind at life cuz there is no actual markers to hit and no specific times to hit em.

Likewise I must say I do appreciate the sentiment here. In many ways I do feel 'behind', but at that same time I must acknowledge that it is that pressure that is helping me move forward. I know a lot of older people have sentiments that things will 'work out', and while I don't doubt their sincerity I am often left questioning their statement's veracity. I just want to do what I can.

I'm 63 and still working it out as well. I didn't even begin to draw until I began engaging. After two years of engraving were are you at, your skill levelAre you skilled in art, drawing, painting?

My skills in art have multiplied exponentially. I made a point to draw at least five times a week for two years. I used Ron Smith's Drawing and Understanding Scrolls and have recently moved on to the advanced sequel. Vine, English, and American scrolls I can do pretty well. The more advanced freeform stuff as well as most German scrolls are still out of my reach, but not for long. I have worked on letters as a second subject of study, and have infrequently dabbled in anatomy behind that. I can attach some pictures of my sketches if you like.

 

[Xenophon]

I'm 63 and still working it out as well. I didn't even begin to draw until I began engaging. After two years of engraving were are you at, your skill levelAre you skilled in art, drawing, painting?

Here is a small selection, not brilliant yet but getting into the same cosmos. I am much better at drawing than engraving. I had a serious handicap in drawing to overcome- art was always my poorest subject.

 

[ElementalBreakdown]

Lol can I come with you? Seriously I am even MORE depressed reading you already took one course and still need more hands on with experts to make a go at it.

If you pm me I will give you my details and I would love to see if we can help each other. I am in NJ. I have summers off and am retiring ypung from teaching, I started young.
What I can provide is an ally helping with research and legwork if you will do the same for me, and a largely untapped market for designs that can't be done CAD that I don't want to share publicly.
Drop me a line if you think we can help each other.

 

[mtlctr]

View attachment 51504 View attachment 51505 View attachment 51506 View attachment 51507 View attachment 51508 View attachment 51509 View attachment 51510 View attachment 51511



Here is a small selection, not brilliant yet but getting into the same cosmos. I am much better at drawing than engraving. I had a serious handicap in drawing to overcome- art was always my poorest subject.

Zeno, no disrespect meant but your drawing needs some refinement. The lines are thick & thin, the volutes, scrolls have lots of elbows. From what see here you would benefit from a local school with emphasis on line drawing.copying for practice is fine however to be successful you’ll need your own designs imho. I don’t know what they require at the Belgium . Good luck in your endeavors

 

[allan621]

Zeno

Have to agree with mtlctr. You are drawing too much, too fast with little grace or balance. Art was always my poorest subject but I learned discipline in drawing when I started to engrave. To begin drawing scrolls just start with getting the scrolls uniform. No leaves, just scrolls and not leaves within the scrolls. And as Monk has said, draw a lot larger scrolls. Draw larger and then start going smaller. Not small to begin with. And keep an eraser handy to start correcting your mistakes.

And instead of going to Belgium I could not suggest enough the greatness of Sam Alfano's dvd - guide to drawing scrolls. Available at engraving-videos.com This will give you more of a direction to follow.

You have great and admirable ambition but you have to start at the beginning. I wish you continuing your desire to became a substantial engraver. Come back and show us your continued drawing practice. I am looking forward to seeing it.

Allan

 

[Xenophon]

Zeno, no disrespect meant but your drawing needs some refinement. The lines are thick & thin, the volutes, scrolls have lots of elbows. From what see here you would benefit from a local school with emphasis on line drawing.copying for practice is fine however to be successful you’ll need your own designs imho. I don’t know what they require at the Belgium . Good luck in your endeavors

Zeno

Have to agree with mtlctr. You are drawing too much, too fast with little grace or balance. Art was always my poorest subject but I learned discipline in drawing when I started to engrave. To begin drawing scrolls just start with getting the scrolls uniform. No leaves, just scrolls and not leaves within the scrolls. And as Monk has said, draw a lot larger scrolls. Draw larger and then start going smaller. Not small to begin with. And keep an eraser handy to start correcting your mistakes.

And instead of going to Belgium I could not suggest enough the greatness of Sam Alfano's dvd - guide to drawing scrolls. Available at engraving-videos.com This will give you more of a direction to follow.

You have great and admirable ambition but you have to start at the beginning. I wish you continuing your desire to became a substantial engraver. Come back and show us your continued drawing practice. I am looking forward to seeing it.

Allan

Thank you so much for the criticism as well as the civility displayed with it. I truly appreciate both. I will keep in mind to slow down while drawing in order to better focus on detail... maybe lay off the caffeine while I work as well. I must confess that the words 'grace' and 'balance'- while they mean something to me, I am simply unable to channel them.
Below is some more recent work. You can see in the previous examples that they were made around December. These are more recnet and the ones which I would consider to be my personal best. There are a few others but this might be the best of the bunch. Might I ask you mtlctr what you mean by my lines being both 'thick and thin'?

I welcome and thank you for your critiques.

 

[mdengraver]

Work bigger when your designing, you can always scale down later. Try using a lighter touch with the pencil. Using a harder leaded pencil may help you clarify your lines and keep the thickness of your lines under control. Take your time refining your lines.

 

[Roger Bleile]

Every good scroll begins with a perfect spiral. If your spirals aren't perfectly concentric, nothing you put inside or outside of the spiral will correct the whole.

 

[mdengraver]

tips for drawing scrolls - Google Search

 

[mdengraver]

Deleted