Transparencies -- which side to use

[leschowe]

I think that I have read everything in this forum on methods to use transparencies
to transfer designs onto metal, and I have found that there seems to be a
considerable amount of confusion, at least in my mind, as to which side of the
transparencies to print the ink: "smooth side" or " rough" side. I was so confused
that I decided to do a little research project to try to figure this all out.

For metal surface preparation I tried the Mike Cirelli solution and the Sharpie
method. I also purchased the Epson transparencies and the Walmart Printworks Transparences.
These are all mentioned in various posts in this forum.

Since the raw transparency material does not hold ink well, the manufacturer
process one side so that it will absorb and hold the ink. This processed side
is what we call the "rough" side. The unprocessed side is the "smooth" side. (By
the way, I think that laser transparency probably have two smooth sides.) I'm
getting ahead of the story but, it seems logical that we engravers do not want
to print on the rough side because we want our ink to come off the transparency and
adhere to our prepared surface. Once you put ink on the rough side -- It's not
coming off.

First we have to determine which side is the rough and smooth side. For the Epson
product it is a little difficult to determine from feel, but you can use a little
acetone on the surface. Acetone has no effect on the smooths side and turns the rough
side, temporarily, white. For the Walmart product you can determine which side is
which simply by feel (it also has a piece of tape on the smooth side). Once I
determine which side is the rough side I used a sharpie and write "ROUGH SIDE" on
the rough side. Later, if I read the mirror image I know that I am looking at
the smooth side - if I can read it correctly I'm looking at the rough side. I
know that his sounds a little simple but it is important to prevent mistakes later.

I set my HP printer to:
Normal print quality,
Print in grayscale,
black print cartridge only.

The results.
In all cases, wether using the Mike Cirelli solution or an orange Sharpie pen to
prepare the metal surface, I got NO ink transfer to the prepared surface when I
printed ink on the rough side of the transparency and I got EXCELLENT
ink transfer to the prepared surface when I printed ink on the smooth side.

Some side notes:
1) If the ink is allowed to dry over night on the smooth side it does not transfer
as well - at least in the dry Colorado air.
2) If you need to refresh the ink, or if you want to transfer another image,
simply wipe off the old ink with acetone and run it through the printer again.
3) For a burnisher I used a 3/8 inch dia. wood dowel and beveled the edge somewhat.
This seemed to work well and did not damage the transparency material as much
as a hardened steel burnisher.
4) I may be wrong here, but I do not think that the type of printer or black ink
cartridge that you have will make any difference, as long as you print on the
smooth side of the transparency and set the printer to not use to much ink.
5) The Walmart transparencies performed equally to the Epson transparencies. Since
the Walmart transparencies are much less expensive and much more accessible,
that is what I would recommend.
6) I'm not sure about this, but I think that Laser Printer Transparencies might
me the best thing because the have 2 smooth sides. This would simplify the whole
thing, plus they would give you twice as much material to use. In fact, the
Walmart transparencies state that you can use the smooth side for laser printers.

Well, that's my experiment. If you disagree please feel free to through all the
darts you want at it.

Les Schowe

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Les

Indeed inkjet transparancies have a rough side that is treated to hold the ink.

There is a simple solution to all this confusion..............buy the correct transparancies from the start. I've been using Tom Whites solution for two years now. He recommended Epson transparancies.........so I tried every other transparancey under the sun other than Epson. The reason being is Epson were far more expensive than the other brands. So after weeks of frustration and a gazillion experiments and a considerable amount of wasted time, effort and money........I finally brought Epson transparancies (which have to be imported into NZ from America)........and they worked......everytime.

With my el-cheapo HP printer, using the #27 black ink cartridge, printing on the rough side of the Epson inkjet transparancey...transferring onto Tom Whites "Transfer Magic".........I get 100% ink transfers everytime that are clear, black, crisp, non smudging prints. The prints don't need to dry out overnight or anything. Print, and 5 minutes later transfer.

Hope this helps

Cheers
Andrew

 

[ChrisB]

Andrew,
I agree, I have epson prints that are about 6 months old,
and still transfer perfectly, with Tom's Muti.

Regards,

 

[Dan Grubaugh]

Where is the best place to find epson transpeanceis? Do Staples/OfficeMax carry them or do they have to be ordered? I have also done the "mad scientist" experiments and had poor results, guess I'm not a very good scientist! I thought I was onto it with Mike's recipe, but still could not get enough enk to release to get a good design to follow.
Dan

 

[jack]

I also us the epson prints. Yes they are a little expensive, but I keep useing the the same sheet over and over useing all the space on the transparancie. I have a great print transfer every time useing the magic transfer. Jack

 

[JCP]

Andrew , could you please tell exactly which Epson Transparency you have. The net search showed they are very expensive and I really want to get the right ones the first time.

I will get the transparency first and if the dammar solution doesn't work I will also get Tom White's solution next.

Thanks

Jack Phillips

 

[John B.]

JC Phillips.
Epson Ink Jet Transparencies, letter size, product # S041064.

Best, John B.

 

[Tom White]

Thanks guys for the support of my magic, after I was done experimenting and had this somewhat figured out I could have opened an office supply for transparencies with all of the failed ones. I tried to help everyone avoid the trial and error by telling them how to get good results every time but nature makes us the way we are and everyone seems to have to try. There are several inks now that are working well but the films and solution have to work well also.

Thanks again for the use and support of the method.

Tom White

 

[leschowe]

oops!!

I am sorry but I made a mistake in my "transparencies" post above. It turns
out that I actually used the Epson transparencies and not 3M transparencies. I
had purchased the transparencies for a friend in Canada, who could not get them
in his town, and I sent them to him by mail. He said that I could keep 5 sheets
for my trouble and I sent the rest to him in the box. I remembered them to be
3M, but after Andrews post, above, I went through my old Email records and determined
that the transparencies were indeed Epson.

I will edit the post and make the appropriate modifications.

I would also note that I do not have any of Tom Whites solution, nor do I know
how to get any, so I did not include it in my study. My results were only for
Mike Cirelli's solution and for the orange Sharpie, which both yielded excellent
results.

Sorry for the error,
Les Schowe

 

[JCP]

Thanks John B




Jack

 

[leschowe]

Well, it looks like I was a little off track in my post at the top of this thread.
I think that I was expecting the transfer performance to be about the same as the
acetone method. With that thought in mind, what was stated in the post above was
pretty much correct.

However.... After reading all of the posts above, and after rereading many of
the "transfer" posts in this forum, I decided to spend today doing some more
experimenting.

I did the same experiment but this time I printed on the "rough" side of the Epson
transparency, and burnished using a STEAL burnisher and considerably more pressure.
I burnished the image on metal prepared with the Cirelli Solution. (In the experiments
at the start of this thread, above, I was using a wooden dowel to burnish.) The
steal burnisher (and more pressure) makes all the difference, and what a
difference it is. I never expected this kind of performance, the images are
perfect.


Les Schowe

 

[Ozgraver]

I aked my wife to pick up some lighter fluid and she came back with an aerosol for filling butane lighters!

Sooooooooo, has anyone tried substituting anything else for the lighter fluid? Meths or rubbing alchohol or anything else?

 

[leschowe]

Hi Oz,
I found the zippo lighter fluid at a tobacco shop. Most other places that I tried
did not carry it.

I am of the philosophy, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". So I would recommend that
you try to find the zippo lighter fluid. That said, however,the Dammar Varnish
does seem to be soluble in acetone and and isopropyl alcohol. In fact, I had
heard somewhere that a 95% isopropyl alcohol and 5% Dammar Varnish works, but I
haven't tried this.

Les Schowe

 

[Dan Grubaugh]

I believe that I seen/ read about the alcohol and damar varnish in Meeks book.....not sure that you have the mix rates correct though. If you don't have access to the book, let me know and I will be glad to look it up when I go out to my shop.
Dan

 

[leschowe]

Hi Dan,
I checked my copy of Meeks book and the only reference that I could find to Dammar
Varnish was on page 116 where he is using the varnish full strength and describing a
photographic transfer process. I don't think laser printers were around then.

I'm not sure abut the percentages that I mentioned above, because I never tried it.
That is what I was told. The only way to find out is to give it a try.

Les Schowe

 

[Ozgraver]

I'm still without Zippo lighter fluid, so I decided this isn't 'rocket surgery'; all that's required is a thin film of medium, be it oil-based varnish, or spirit based varnish (like Dammar which is based on pure turpentine).

The object is to achieve a quick drying solution onto which you can burnish the desired print. The high proportion of solvent guarantees the solution will dry quickly and leave a very thin coat of the chosen medium.

I tried a splash of Dammar with a bigger splash of pure turps which I applied to (uncleaned) copper and steel plates. While that was drying I printed part of the alphabet onto the rough side of a HP transparency sheet with my HP Deskjet 1120C, using 'Best' and 'Greyscale' settings.
(I also tried using the shiny side of the transparency sheet and virtually no ink stuck to it.)

By the time I got two strips of Scotch 'Magic Tape' ready, the ink appeared dry, so I stuck the transparency ink-side-down on the copper plate and burnished it with a polished steel burnisher.

It worked perfectly! I tried the same transparency on the steel plate and got a slightly less intense print from the second burnishing. It was still perfectly clear for engraving purposes.

I made another solution with rubbing alcohol in place of the turps - same result. I repeated with rubbing alcohol – same result. I even tried a dilute shellac/meths solution – same result.

 

[Dan Grubaugh]

hello Les, I looked in the Meeks book last night and could not find it either. I have looked at so many different things, that I may have had it crossed-up where I seen it. Probably on one of the engraving sites....either here at the engraver's cafe or on Steve Lindsay's site. Guess it is good to have to much info thatn not enough. Sorry if I caused any confusion. I am thinking the mix ratio was 90% alcohol to 10% damar. I mixed some up after I read it but did not get very good results. I am now using Cereli Recipe and it works.
Dan

 

[Ozgraver]

Dan and Les, I just found the recipe you want in a pdf document on Sam's page here.

I quote:
"Formula for the isopropanol/Dammar varnish (ITN: dammar varnish) solution:
1. 95 mL isopropanol.
2. 5 mL Dammar varnish".

 

[leschowe]

Hi Oz,
I found your posts under the "Cirellis method" thread quite interesting and
informative. Considering all your discussion there on oil distillates as solvents
for Dammar Varnish, and the fact that Dammar Varnish is an "oil based" varnish,
I wonder why alcohol works as a solvent for the varnish???? I thought that oil
and alcohol were not necessarily compatible. I have always been a little confused
about this. (I use alcohol based stains and dyes for my flintlock rifles.)

Les Schowe

 

[Ozgraver]

Les, you're quite correct; oil and alcohol don't mix, but in the proportions we're talking about, if using alcohol, it merely acts as a carrier for the small amount of varnish and it evaporates quickly leaving the thin film of varnish behind.

If you notice, the varnish is cloudy with no gloss, but then we're only trying to transfer lettering and images, not trying to put a glossy top coat on a an oil painting.

For my experiments I just used what was within easy reach, but I think when all is said and done, I will use shellite. As a second choice I would use white spirit/turpentine substitute all of which are perfectly compatible with the turpentine used in dammar varnish.

They may be slightly slower drying, but by the time I print out my artwork onto a transparency, the solvent would have well and truly evaporated.