To Artisan or not to Artisan that is the question

[dlilazteca]

Ok first I would like to thank everyone on this forum for taking to time to help..I would like to keep this thread not on why I should be other brands of gravers but on what is the difference between the Artisan and the Classic besides the money.

I have read that the classic has variable stroke...

1.What does that mean?

2. What is it for?:thinking:

3. What short falls will I have if i just buy the Artisan

4. What other diffrences am I missing

I would like advice from people who actually own the items..

thanks again

 

[Marcus Hunt]

In short, the short stroke gives really light hits which means its easy to get nice fine shading lines. The longer the stroke the harder the piston will hit which means if you won't deep cuts or to shift metal it will. You can cut finely with a long stroke but its not as easy and you have to concentrate much more as its easy to fine yourself cutting deeper than you want.

So, if you have a Classic you start off outlining your scrolls. If they are large or foliate or the background is going to be relieved you start off with a long stroke that can drive the graver through the metal. When you come to shading you'd reset the collar on the tool so the stroke shortens and gives much finer, shallower cuts.

With the Artisan the stroke length is set and the control over the depth of cut is accomplished by pedal control. I'm not sure how easy it is to get really fine bulino cuts, perhaps an Artisan user can tell us, but it can't be as simple as adjusting the collar on the Classic.

So basically what you'd miss out on is the fine control settings and a bit more versatility in the long run. If you really are on a tight budget go for the Artisan but if you can stretch that bit further go for a Classic, you won't regret it.

 

[GTJC460]

Marcus has summed it up pretty well. But I will add a little to it. There are three different pistons available too. Which were basically designed to give the user a little more flexibility in the power settings. There's a feather or light touch, standard and a dead blow. These increase the power of the hit/stroke much like the stroke length adjustment. Essentially what's being changed is the force of the hit versus the length of the stroke. It's just another way of achieving the same effect.

When I had the artisan, I didn't really have a problem with varying the power. Granted I wasn't working at a masters level like Marcus, Sam or the like. If it was me, I buy in at a comfortable level for you so you can get to work as soon as possible.

There's always demand for these tools second hand, so if you decide to upgrade in the future you can probably sell it for close to what you put into it. You're never going to know if you like it or have the potential unless you pickup a tool and start working with it.

It might also help if you describe the type of work you'd ultimately like to do. I saw you were from Texas, so I'm assuming western bright cut? The artisan will be perfect fir that task.

 

[Marcus Hunt]

I know it's not easy but if you can find someone with an Airgraver or other system try it first if possible. I love my Airgraver but for many years was extremely happy with my GraverMach. The ability to set the stroke speed was what I liked about it; it was just set and go and it was a very quiet unit. But I hated the cobbled together Airtact hoses and the way it positively guzzled air. On average my SilAir would cycle 5 or 6 times an hour.

The Airgraver on the other hand literally sips air and my compressor cycles 2 or 3 times a day! But the Airgraver is much noisier (especially when stippling) and there is a lot of extra tweaking required to fine tune it.

Each system has advantages and disadvantages and neither will make you an instant engraver. Lindsay is comparable cost wise to GRS so it's pay your money and make your choice. I recently retooled with Airgraver and have not regretted my decision as its a superb tool, but I cannot get evangelical about it as I know it might not suit everyone and I know that it's how the tools are put to use (rather than the brand) which gets results. My father got amazing results with his Mk1 GraverMax so it's what you do with the graver that matters.

But as Bert says, Lindsay makes a superb product so whichever you chose you won't be disappointed and it will have a good resale value as his tools are quite rare in the secondhand arena.

 

[mrthe]

If you make a little search you can find previous posts about this , the Artisan is a great tool if you can't afford a classic go for it, if you can afford a Classic in my opinion will better, the ring stroke collar is great and very helpful.

 

[GTJC460]

Yes. They are both excellent tools, which is why I have them.

My only point is you can't go wrong with either choice. Let you checkbook make the decision and start engraving! The tools that are currently being manufactured are absolutely top notch equipment.

Being a jeweler I deal with customers all the time. Basically there's a handful of people that can just buy anything they want and only want the absolute best, most expensive item money can buy. The rest of the crowd makes compromises to obtain the product that best fits their hot button and most importantly their budget!

The artisan is 595 whereas the classic is 995. Almost double the cost. In reality the cost to get engraving is actually quite small, as these tools will last a lifetime and will more than pay for themselves over time.

 

[dlilazteca]

Marcus has summed it up pretty well. But I will add a little to it. There are three different pistons available too. Which were basically designed to give the user a little more flexibility in the power settings. There's a feather or light touch, standard and a dead blow. These increase the power of the hit/stroke

So I can basically change out the pistons and achieve the same quality as the classic?


sent from my S3 using tapatalk 2 great app for forums

 

[GTJC460]

Sort of. Basically with a screw mechanism you have an infinite range of settings. With the pistons you have essentially three levels of adjustment. In reality with the classic I basically only adjust it from full, medium and soft. So in essence the way I use the tool, it's the same thing.

Also being a jeweler and having worked with foot controls for at least 17+ years I'm very used to varying the speed of the tool with my foot.

On a separate note, I have to say I absolutely love palm control too (Lindsay and airtact). When doing a major pave project it's hugely beneficial from a fatigue stand point. But this a totally different ball of wax!

 

[Christian DeCamillis]

Interesting how the prices are stated here. when I read on the site the cost of the tool is 595 plus another 250 for pedal plus another 125 for each specialty piston that's a grand total of 1095 dollars. Then if you want more collects there 25 each. You will want and need a lot of collects. it seems the price isn't so low when you add it all up.

No one has mentioned the Enset so I will . If you are doing western talk to silverchip he uses it for that. If you will ever want to do sculpted engraving the Enset will do it like no other.

Chris

 

[GTJC460]

Chris. I'll gladly review the EnSet if you send me one!

 

[Red Green]

And here I thought it would be a bit crass to make such an offer. Really it should all come down to value, available funds and need. I think what is being expressed is what others know and the Enset is the new guy. It's just a hard fact the Artisan is the lowest cost entry system, it works just fine off the shelve, it requires a foot control system and Lindsay's finest set is $250.00. 'Collects' are not needed or used with the Lindsay sharpening system but he has them if you want them. As I've said and firmly believe lowest cost is not a good way to buy tools, value is determined by use and productivity.

Bob

 

[airamp]

Hi,

The Enset is a very viable option for everyone.

It is much like the Magnagraver II but with much more control.

I have a PC classic and a MagnagraverII but the foredom flexshaft always get is the way and is a issue in getting it to do what I want it to do.

The enset seems to be the answer for fine detail work, slow (or fast engraving), hammer marks effects (for flint's and such), or not, and is not restricted by a 1/2 inch drive cable hooked to a motor...

It is the only product out there where you could do one strike, a few strikes and still have control of the effects you are trying to get.

Simply a well made product that is very versitile.

Thanks Chris for such a great new item and all the great video tutors and your discovery of angle grinds that not only shades but brings life to the engraving.

Your DVD's and sample plates are worth every penny...

The enset and other item's you have are really on the list of must have's.


AirAmp

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Chris, the Enset looks like a great tool. However, originally your website said that anyone in Europe had to buy from your European distributor/partner. Their website, at the time had no prices or details of how to order which is not good. Now I can't even find their website so can you please tell us what's going on? Can we now buy direct from the US or not? I'm very interested in Enset's carving abilities and am very tempted if I did more carving but your European dealer does not make things easy or now (so it seems) even have a web presence that I can find.

 

[mrthe]

Interesting how the prices are stated here. when I read on the site the cost of the tool is 595 plus another 250 for pedal plus another 125 for each specialty piston that's a grand total of 1095 dollars. Then if you want more collects there 25 each. You will want and need a lot of collects. it seems the price isn't so low when you add it all up.

No one has mentioned the Enset so I will . If you are doing western talk to silverchip he uses it for that. If you will ever want to do sculpted engraving the Enset will do it like no other.

Chris

Chris i think that no one mentioned the En-set only because the question is about the difference between the Artisan and the Classic,all the way i think that people make a little confusion ,about what is avaible for"" and what you need for"",if you have a small airbrush compressor with a regulator,one of this you can buy for around 100 $ you only need the handpiece (595) and the simple foot control (179) for a total of 774 $ you don't need extra collects because you can use the quick change screw system and with one collect you have enough or more pistons,with the standard piston that come with the hand piece you can do all the jobs,extra pistons are if you want extra configurations but are not necessary from my point of view,and extra collects too,only to make the change more fast,but is fast without it too only need 1 second to change a graver.
For this reason is the more cheaper and compact system of the market,and his quality is extremly good.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Chris, the Enset looks like a great tool. However, originally your website said that anyone in Europe had to buy from your European distributor/partner. Their website, at the time had no prices or details of how to order which is not good. Now I can't even find their website so can you please tell us what's going on? Can we now buy direct from the US or not? I'm very interested in Enset's carving abilities and am very tempted if I did more carving but your European dealer does not make things easy or now (so it seems) even have a web presence that I can find.

Marcus, I ordered my Enset from Jordi, sent him a mail if you are interested about pricing.

http://www.syenset.com/68001.html

And yes I agree Chris should add a link on his website about the Enset for those non USA people who are interested in one. It indeed is hard to find Jordi who is selling the Enset outside the USA.

arnaud

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Thanks Arnaud and Mrthe. My Mac Book Pro has just gone belly up on me so is in for a report on what repair is needed. Provided I don't have to go out and get a new computer, I'm seriously considering an Enset for carving metal very soon. In combination with my Airgravers it would make a fantastic setup but I'll have to see what the finances dictate.

Getting back to the OP's question. I use the tungsten piston all the time as it's what I prefer and what works for me. I just set my Classic to long stroke and it can still cut incredibly fine lines with care and concentration but when I set the stroke to short the lines were cut with ease and came naturally but then again I'm using palm control and that is another dimension entirely.

On Steve's forum he described the Artisan as being like a car set 3rd gear compared to a Classic with a 5 speed transmission. So whilst you may be able to do the majority of engraving if you want to go ultra fine or ultra heavy carving you might struggle but for the majority of stuff the Artisan will do the job. It just mightn't have the ease or finesse of the Classic but it will still cut metal.

 

[Christian DeCamillis]

Marcus,

I don't know why you couldn't find the Syenset website. it hasn't changed. But to answer your question. Yes you can order from the US for the time being. All orders should go to http://www.engraver.com/ I will be consolidating my store on my website with engraver.com so we can provide better service overall. My store on my site will be removed and I will be concentrating on teaching, more videos etc...

We will also be at the JCK Show at the end of this month. Anyone who might be attending and would like to give the tools a try please stop by the booth. B2266 It isn't in the tool hall so don't look for us there. We will have the full line of tools including the Leica A60 microscope. We will be demonstrating stone setting and engraving and would welcome anyone who would like to spend some time with the tools to come and do so.

Thanks, Chris

 

[tkelch]

I tried both the tools you are asking about when I went to Ray Covers school last October and went with the classic just because it has the adjustment as others have said you can do the same fine lines with the Artisan but it takes a lot more control with the foot petal. For me it was worth the extra for the adjustment. Like others have said also try to find some one that will let you try the stuff out at there shop and show you how to set it up of take a class if you can. I was lucky and only live like 15 miles from Ray but did not know till I started looking for a class.

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Chris, I just googled Enset again. I got to page 10 and gave up. Your US pages are there all the way but nothing relating to the European site, strange unless its not getting hits? Unfortunately my purchase has got to wait a while as I've just had to fork out for a new computer, grrrrrr!

 

[Gemsetterchris]

I sent a setting example off to a potential client recently, who said "you don't use a gravermax do you as your work is cut differently"
I figured this "production manager" has never worked at the bench.
All the various air graver machines work however you want combined with your choice of graver & skill level.