thanks mates

[chris]

thanks for the warm welcome
i would like to ask a question if i may gustave youngs famous inlaid colt navys and dragoons could anyone tell me if the gold work all over the barrels is inlay or damacene work

thank you chris

 

[Weldon47]

Chris,

Great question! Sam & I had a discussion about that very thing at the Grand Master's last year. As I recall, our conclusion was that he most likely used both techniques. Wish GY was here so we could ask him!

Weldon

 

[chris]

g young

thanks weldon for your time to answer me ihave another question for somebody if possible
im reading a book called the art and tradition of the zuloagas its about damascene produced in early spain
magnifacent work but the question is how do they make gold wire 24k 7.5-8 microns for there work that is
if 1 micron=1/1000mm is it possible to draw gold wire that fine with a draw plate or some other means

thank you chris

 

[Ron Smith]

They hammer it into foil similar to guilding......Ron S

 

[chris]

wire

hi Ron
this explains the gold and silver ribbon they use but not the 8 micron round wire they use on intricute
objects they out line with wire and fill in strand by strand
thanks chris

 

[Ron Smith]

I could be wrong about this, but I think they lay the sheet of foil over the area that is ready for the damascening and use a burnisher or maybe even a punch to cut the design out of the foil. It doesn't take much prssure and It doesn't matter what the design is. The burnisher or punch forces the gold down into the engraving and cuts it out at the same time. Can you visualize this? I think, but am not entirely sure that is the way it is done. I have seen a number of damascened pieces over the years and they all have voids somewhere in the design where the gold came out. I am not too keen on the technique and haven't done any myself for this reason. It is much faster than inlaying, but not nearly as durable. You can do about any design with this technique.....and that is my two cents on the subject.........maybe someone else knows more than I do about this technique........Ron S

 

[Robert W Waters]

I believe I read somewhere that a smaller gold wire embedded in large silver wire. The silver is then drawn to the smallest size possible. Then the silver is dissolved chemically and you're left with the very fine gold wire.

There is probably a source for the fine gold wire somewhere in Spain. If you find a source, let us know.

 

[chris]

wire

gday everyone
thanks for all your help with this
id like to ask somebody how fine a wire they could produce or have drawn down with draw plates
thanks chris

 

[monk]

drawn gold wire

thanks weldon for your time to answer me ihave another question for somebody if possible
im reading a book called the art and tradition of the zuloagas its about damascene produced in early spain
magnifacent work but the question is how do they make gold wire 24k 7.5-8 microns for there work that is
if 1 micron=1/1000mm is it possible to draw gold wire that fine with a draw plate or some other means

thank you chris

it's possible, not practical, but possible to draw a 1 oz batch of gold into an unbroken wire 35 miles long. my understanding is , one should never attempt this on a monday morning !

 

[chris]

miles of wire

thanks monk never on a friday afternoon ether
great stuff chris

 

[Weldon47]

Chris,
First, I concur with the estimable Mr. Smith regarding the way very thin gold lines are applied by damascening.
Second to draw thin gold wire, use a drawplate to get the wire down as small as it will go first. Remember to anneal the wire throughout the process. After you've gone through all the drawplate holes, you can further reduce the wire size by rolling it between two hardened steel plates. Imagine making a snake out of playdough when you were a kid & you'll get the idea. You can get the wire pretty small using that technique.

Hope that helps,

Weldon

 

[John B.]

I'm sure most of you already know this, but for those that don't..............
Another way to make the wire as small as you want to is to draw it down in your drawplate until you have the smallest diameter that your plate can provide.
Anneal it at each draw.
Then taper both ends of the wire, double the wire in half and pull the two strands through the plate at one time.
Anneal again.
Now fold the wire into three three strands, taper the ends and pull through again.
You can keep doing this until the wire is the size you need for the line you want to inlay.
The strands are not nice and round after pulling it doubled up but this does not matter for inlay.
The smallest hole in any of my plates is 0.25mm or about 10ths of an inch.
I have pulled up to five reduced strands through it at one time,after multi pulling.
This left each strand with about the same bulk as a 2ths wire.

Just a thought, hope it is a help to some.

John B.

 

[chris]

wire

gooday
weldon and john b , and everybody , that imfo was very helpful thank you very much

it was just what i was searching for

chris

 

[FANCYGUN]

One other thing you can do if you need short pieces of gold wire is...take a sheet of gold and engrave a fine line on it. Now take the gold ribbon that you created by cutting this line and use that for your inlay.
Marty