Soft brass alloy for inlay practices??

[bram ramon]

Hey at school there is a inlay exercise coming up. Most of the time we use brass wire is we are just inlaying lines. And for bigger stuff we do pure silver. Pure silver doesn't look as good as brass does of course. Now i was wondering could i make a soft brass alloy which will work nicely for background inlay an raised inlay. The steel we use for practice plates is just soft steel ore CK45.
I know of an brass alloy i used for mechanical uses with 2% lead id milled better. Any ideas?

 

[rod]

Bram,

Since brass is an alloy, I think it work-hardens under the hammer faster than, say, copper, so would not copper be the better practice? I know that silver is up in price to about $38/once, but thin .999 silver cannot be so expensive for some practice of very thin gauge? Easy enough to compare work hardening properties by equal hammering of brass wire side by side with copper?

Rod

 

[bram ramon]

Copper we use to but we don't like the color.. Silver works great to but also here the color..

 

[Red Green]

Because brass is an alloy it offers great diversity in performance.

Bob

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Bram

Good luck with the brass. If you are going to fill areas with wire you may find it very difficult. Brass work hardens so quickly that you have to set it on the first hit. So I guess you will have to get the right kind of brass.

But if you do manage to do it..........then you will be able to inlay just about anything.

Having said that, there was a vise and turntable engraved by Mitchell Lurth on the GRS web site all inlayed with brass. It's amazing work. Here's the link http://www.grstools.com/featuredphotos/2012/FP47-2.html

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Red Green]

Perhaps it's Prince Rupert's metal that Bram is talking about. Gilding metal is 95% copper 5% zinc that sounds soft.

Bob

 

[DKanger]

I bought several lengths of dead soft brass wire from a supplier who specializes in twisted wire jewelry and have successfully inlayed it into muzzleloading barrels without incident. It's softer than cartridge brass. He used to be located in MS, but was bought out by a company out west somewhere. Unfortunately, my computer with all my links died so I can't find their information. I'll have to wait until they send me another sales flyer. They are the same company who used to offer dead soft 0k (zero k) gold wire too. Perhaps you can find a supplier who offers that.

 

[Chujybear]

Ally your bronze with 90 % gold. Should work fine.

 

[silverchip]

Here is a link to some work done by my friend John Ennis-http://www.tcowboyarts.com/exhibitions/2011/john-c-ennis-2011#-using brass wire and silver wire in combination.

 

[JCB]

Try red brass. It's sometimes called NuGold or Merlin's Gold because of it's gold appearance. It is softer than yellow brass.

 

[Martin Strolz]

Look here and compare the values of the mechanical properties: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_alloy
The "Yellow or High brass "(ASTM B36, B134, B135) seems to be an option - but re-read what Andrew wrote!! He is right.

Regarding alloys that contain lead:
Lead forms own particles in the Cu-Zn matrix. This is because these metals form an alloy as long as these are molten. But as the mixture cools down there is an exsolution process and the lead content forms a seperate phase between the Cu-Zn crystals. This is of great advantage as it makes the chips break off easily during machining. Good surface quality, no cooling necesary, in use for mass production parts. But under any circumstances stay away from the alloy with the lead for inlaying purposes! It is very brittle.
Cheers, Martin

 

[bram ramon]

Martin Thanks man!

I found a good alloy 80%copper 20%zinc. It is quit dark yellow to orange. But it should do the job. My old teacher goldsmiting gave me the alloy. They used it for practicing engraving he told me it cuts almost a good as gold.
And like you see the scrolls inlayed on the ball vise that we can do to with normal brass wire but as soon you have bigger surfaces thats when problems begin.. Anyway next week i'll make the alloy and let you know the results! Here is a good list to; http://chemistry.about.com/od/alloys/a/Brass-Alloys.htm

 

[Christian DeCamillis]

I agree that leaded brass won't work for inlay it is for machining. It's what we call 360 brass here in the USA.

What I don't understand is why people have such a hard time inlaying harder metals or metals that work harden easier. I think the issue is poor technique. If your metal doesn't stick with the first strike then you have done something wrong. It's that simple. There are two factors that will make it easier . Tthe first is to make teeth that are strong at the base so they don't bend when you try to hammer metal into them. I am referring to filling a larger cavity with either wire or sheet. when it comes to lines it doesn't matter if you have a good deep undercut you can inlay steel into it. What matters is the size of the wire. The more exact the size is to just fill the line the easier it will be and it won't matter how hard the material is as long as it isn't harder than the metal your inlaying into. Another issue is vibration. if your piece isn't solid and vibrates you will have trouble.

The other thing you have to get right when using wire to fill a cavity is again the size of the wire. this is very important because if your wire is too thick then when you hit it it will spread instead of moving down and in. i like square wire for inlaying into large cavities because the whole bottom surface is already in contact with the teeth so when you strike it to go in it does just that. You can take round wire and roll it flat first if you don't have square draw plates or don't want to buy square wire. I also use a textured steel punch to set the wire then switch to a brass one after the metal is set well. Don't forget to always anneal your wire first.

Hopefully some of these tips will help those that have difficulty with inlaying harder metals or ones that work harden more easily.

 

[Red Green]

I found just about what Bram and Chris are talking about at Rio Grande, Red Brass Square Wire dead soft 85% copper 15% zinc. Apparently it is only available in 22 gauge, they have half hard in 18, 20, 21 and 22.

Bob

I meant to ask Bram what method of alloying and pouring are you going to use? Are you using a covered crucible? I'd be so concerned about the molten zinc overheating I'd be a mess, don't think I'd try that without serious help, not a pleasant way to go.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

I brought some dead soft copper from Rio Grande and it's a very good product. One roll lasts 3 lifetimes and it was cheap enough.

Another method you could try employing is the one in Meek's book where he inlays each strand of wire in it's own cavity. That way everything is well and truly locked in like a single line inlay.

The only problem with something like brass wire, or anything that work hardens immediately, is that in large areas where you are relying on teeth to hold the wire, you run the risk of a piece of wire not quite setting properly and falling out later on. Not so much an issue on something that sits in the show cabinet. But on something like a gun that is fired.............

Surely you would be better off using sheet in those circumstances (I'm talking hard metals here like brass. Not 24k gold)

Or if you are going through that much trouble, then it would be more economical to use gold as it's cheap enough and a little goes a long way.

But like anything. You don't know till you try.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Marrinan]

Indian Jewelry Supply offer many products in red brass. They will also custom manufacture red brass items per special needs- Fred

 

[Red Green]

If you intend to do inlay work would it be wise to buy a square hole drawplate? And if so what would be the largest wire you would feel useable and what would be the smallest size you would expect to use?

Bob

 

[bram ramon]

Wow again a lot of advice..

@ Chris i don't think you can call our inlay technique 'poor'.. And inlaying brass (and of course we anneal it) in soft metal goos quit well for sure if it is just lines and small leafs but ass soon as we speak off background inlay it is really hard. With gunsteel no problem. And remeber at our school there is not one pneumatic engraving device! It is all done by hand. and the wire diameter we use depends between 0.2 up to 0.6mm
But the the square wire thats a super idea!! thanks for that tip Chris!!

@ Redgreen! Yes i use a covered crucible. Making brass is not that hard just a bit of brainwork before you start. I even made once my one nickel silver in an open crucible it you know how to work with the torch it is quit easy! I'm really grateful to my teacher goldsmithing in Antwerp who learned me all this!

 

[Red Green]

I have suffered twice from metal fever, both times from welding over unknown zinc, it is not fun. To die from that is something I would fight hard to avoid, hanging would be preferable. Stay safe.

Bob