Critique Request potential design for Kimber 1911

[GTJC460]

I started working on my kimber 1911 .45 today. From the one photo you can see that I'm dividing the one side of the slide into two distinct areas that will get filled with a similar scroll design.

I transferred these area to a practice plate and paper working out a design. I really want to fill these areas with complete coverage that the english style scroll affords. Plus I like the look of it. And I'm not real keen on a design that requires background removal

My practice plate is just the heavier cuts I plan to make. I do plan to add some light shading to the leaves of the scroll to add a little more dimension to.

My question for you is whether you like the overall flow of the scrolls. The one area I'm not 100% sold on is the lower right that's just larger leaf type structures.

I thought about adding a scroll off the larger scroll on that side, but I thought it looked a little too crowded.

 

[Beathard]

Bert, I like the design. I just finished the same gun It cuts like a dream. I too would have tried scrollwork in the bottom right. I would have tried two scrolls, one each of the two major backbones. Not sure if it would be proper English or if would be to crowded. I'll post pics of mine as soon as its presented to the award recipient. (Wouldn't want to ruin the surprise).

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi bert

I can see what you are trying to do but you're not quite pulling it off.

Your main line that is diagonally cutting the space in half has the appearance of being a straight line at the bottom third. I know that it is curved but visually it looks straight...it needs to be more curved.

You also have the top right hand scroll coming off that same line and that is further enhancing the straight line look. Both of those lines need to be more rounded and give a "flowing" look

And yes, those big leaves on the bottom right just don't really match in with everything else.

You also have a major problem in that English scroll looks better when it is smaller. It doesn't translate all that well when it's too big as you have there. In other words you need more scrolls and smaller.

I would suggest that you break down the design and add more scrolls and that would give it a far more pleasing look.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Beathard]

I see what Andrew is saying about the straight lines, but I kinda like the size. I'm not sure I link the tiny English Scroll that makes me grab reading glasses.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Beathard

English scroll has a kind of rhythm to it. When you start cutting it it definitely has a rhythm, kind of like beating a drum.........this shows in the look of it as well.

When it is small or a reasonable size, and I'm not talking tiny here, you can get away with quite a bit. When it is larger all those small things start magnifying a lot and the imperfections that give it charm become eyesores. That means you want to start thinking about modifying and adapting a few things.

I'm certainly no expert on English scroll by any means. It just strikes me that it looks better when it is smaller and loses something when bigger.

However, like all things, it is each to their own

Cheers
Andrew

 

[thughes]

Hi Bert,
While I'm as far from an expert as it's possible to get, I gotta agree with Andrew. While it's cut way better than I could, it kinda feels to me like American scroll, filled in with English elements, if that makes any sense. And you don't seem to see English scroll on a Boss with those big leaves down in the right corner.

Todd

 

[monk]

i'll only say-- i don't like that style applied on a "self stuffer". cant say specifically why, but i think the english style looks far better on on a scatter gun. perhaps i'm trying to say more appropriate.

 

[GTJC460]

Thanks Andrew. I'm working on adjusting the design to make it work/look better.

 

[GTJC460]

I played with the design quite a bit today.

I ended up cutting this design and putting shading in.

I know it's not english scroll. It's become very clear to me that the english scroll tends to work best when you have nice geometric areas or completely covering everything. As I wasn't really sure how setup a "tessalated" grid to layout the scrolls with this space, I've somewhat abandoned that idea.

I don't think this is really quite right either, so I will keep messing with it till something pops in my brain!

 

[Marrinan]

Wonderful experiments! I am enjoying your exploration and thank you for sharing.

 

[Robert Jobe]

The later works for me. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Bert


That's much better but you still have a real problem with the straight line diagonally cutting your work in half.I've posted a picture to show you.

I've also attached a very rough idea of where you could head with it if you wish. You have most of it there it just needs tweaking.

Now I will say something about computer layouts. Computer programs can draw very accurate scrolls for what they are.......but sometimes we can stretch and manipulate by hand a bit easier. The big trick with a scroll is to make it look good to the eye. That means we can tweek and stretch into a given area and still make it look good and balanced....... Sometimes a computer makes it a bit mechanical.

Now if you want to see some excellent scroll work that has very little background work/removal then take a look at Marty Rabeno's work (Fancy Gun) He is a master of beautiful scroll with not a lot of background removal.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts for you to think about.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Beathard]

Good suggestion Andrew. Like the new background layout.

 

[GTJC460]

Thanks Andrew. I do draw this with pencil and paper first. I brought the design into illustrator to "clean up" my sketches. I've been using the pc to help bring clarity to my sketches. My primary business is cad/cam fulfillment for the jewelry industry, so the computer really helps me at sorting through the mess. Believe me I have a stack of pencil sketches all over my desk.

When I was engraving the design on the practice plate, I really understood the point about the straight line effect. Your suggestions are very good and I appreciate the time you've put into helping me.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Bert

No worries, glad to help out

Without a doubt the design is the hardest thing about engraving and it takes quite a bit to wrap your head around it. And of course the variations are endless.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[GTJC460]

Andrew. You are absolutely correct. Figuring out what to cut is the hard part.

Jerry, The background image is a little trick I use in the cad/cam jewelry business. I figured it would be a good adaptation here. All the time I get requested to take an existing style and adapt it to customers needs. Easiest way to do that is to draw the object right on top of a picture that you scale to real life within the software. In stead of guessing at proportions, angles, etc... you have it right there in front of you on the screen. I think there's a Photoshop tutorial floating around one of the forums on developing a scene for engraving using similar concepts

 

[Beathard]

There was a good tutorial. I think it was by Marty. But the pictures are now missing. Sad...

 

[Andrew Biggs]

That tutorial was by Phil Coggan a couple of years ago and it was great....you have to grab these things while you can

FEGA has a DVD by Marty Rabeno showing how to put a scene together using Photoshop. It was an excellent seminar he did about 3 or 4 years ago.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Beathard]

Bret and I weren't engraving 4 years ago. Hard to grab them... But your right it was very good. Wish someone would recreate it on the forum.

 

[Mike Bissell]

Marty Rabeno's seminar on using Photoshop is still available from FEGA as well as many others.