Question: Pocket Watch - inside lid - How, wow.

[Trueline]

This vintage work is old world mastery.
How on earth did they do it?
Amazing how close to the edge they went. The details of each cut renders just the right effect. I'll try to get a better photo. The fine lines of the script are what I aspire to.

 

[RoycroftRon]

Could be that it was domed after engraving as the engraving appears to be on the flat.

Just a guess.

 

[Ed Westerly]

You can get into deep areas by making a "dog legged" graver. I don't have the computer skills or programs necessary to draw one, but if you take a normal flat graver and remove all the material from the bottom, up to about 3/16'' from the tip, you get more lift over edges of a depression, and can get into really tight areas. Also, if you know what you are doing, you can engrave the parts that are close to one side from the other side, and vise versa. In other words do all of the left side cutting coming in from the right and so on. There is also an advantage here in that the piece is round, so there are more angles available to attack from.

 

[Mike Cirelli]

The lids are removed at the hinge, engraved then reassembled.

 

[monk]

eds' idea will work. i made this one out of a curved liner. i simply removed the graver, inserted it upside down. it works. this configuration can be a bit tricky to shape and come to a suitable point geometry. this is a case where a proper graver holder is valuable. the ugly one was fashioned from an old sabre saw blade. there was just enough ground away on the bottom to make this one work as well.

 

[James Roettger]

I find just going to a 20 degree heel with a standard straight graver often works just fine in shallow objects like that watch back or inside spoons. About removing the hinge pins I have found it necessary on occasion to actually have to drill them out as some have been riveted shut. Be prepared to repair the hinge tube as well if you are going to remove one. With luck you will be able to remove the pin without incident.

 

[Trueline]

That sounds like a very sensible approach. Thanks for the visual Monk.
Ed was this what you ment by "dog-legged?" This seems more feasible now. Pulling out the pin is no small task I realize. That relief cut on the belly of a graver looks like I could even do the same behind a 120 degree tip and achieve those elegant fine lines of the script with about the same feel of cutting
A flat piece without a lip. What a great resource this forum is. Thank you gentlemen.

 

[Trueline]

Ha how well I know. You mean broken drill bit pieces? Heat near hinge springs and or steel chimes? Yep. Preparation vs perspiration. There is a dust cover on the other side that the client wants engraved similar in style to this side. I will be removing the cover and send to one of our companies' hand engravers. If he declines and I have a chance to prepare practice samples and if my samples are approved then I will step up and preform the engraving myself.

 

[silverchip]

Here's a dogleg or fishbelly graver used for that purpose.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

I made me a graver like this to make it possible to engrave in deeper areas. Works too when engraving on the inside of a spoon.
Mine is not really bended just extra lift what is needed to do these kind of jobs. Had to play a bit with the geometry. Works too for inside ring engraving.

arnaud

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

I made me a graver like this to make it possible to engrave in deeper areas. Works too when engraving on the inside of a spoon.
Mine is not really bended just extra lift what is needed to do these kind of jobs. Had to play a bit with the geometry. Works too for inside ring engraving.

arnaud

 

[Ed Westerly]

Trueline,

Yes Monk's second one is closest to what I was talking about. Mine has much less flat behind the tip before it curves up.

 

[Trueline]

A few more shots of the existing engraving on one cover. I can't wait to try out all these ideas eventually.
As I obsess over it now it is making sense to me to try out the increased belly at 20 degrees or something. That way I have plenty of graver to continue sharpening.

 

[Tim Wells]

I absolutely love this type of engraving and it's among my favorite considering scroll work, bulino and all the rest. It's hard to beat good lettering to please the eye and these old 19th century watch backs and dust covers are a good place to find that classy lettering.

Do us all a favor while you have that off. Take your camera and take a macro shot of it and just hold a piece of printer paper over the top of the camera and watch back to block the glare, kind of like a roof.

It's a quick and dirty way of taking a good closeup of the detail without the glare if you have no other way of doing it. I'd really like to see that "Harris Bogert" detail up close. Thanks for posting these pics; great watch!

 

[Trueline]

Thanks for the suggestion Tim. I'll try that after I have the covers back in my hands. This is so great to hear from other hand lettering enthusiasts.
I notice that one of my photos didn't go through. I did try to reduce the glare by dabbing a little transfer wax first. I'll get a shot clean and shadowed when I have it back to re-pin.
Meanwhile let me re send the one that didn't seem to take.

 

[Tim Wells]

Thanks for that photo. When you do as I suggested you will be eliminating the glare from the lights and the reflection in the case back will be the white paper which is a lot better than lightbulb. :-}

I really like these examples where there are a few different letter styles mixed to make a much more interesting appearance. I've actually bought watch cases just for the engraving on them.

 

[Trueline]

I promise to try.