Question: Ordering GRS equipment outside the US?

[PS_Bond]

I had a similar shipping issue with GRS - DVD $40, shipping $50... Still not at the same level as the solitary graver though!

Incoming charges are import duty, VAT @ 20% and... Parcel Farce's extortionate "handling charge" of around £14.
Import duty is waived if the amount is < £9; import tariff on a vice is 3.70% if I've picked the right one (or they do).
http://tariff.businesslink.gov.uk is frankly a ruddy nightmare.

When my Airgraver was hand carried in, it was declared to the HMRC bod in the airport who spent some time trying to find it in her big book of tariffs, gave up and billed VAT only.

 

[Artemiss]

Oooo, that does sound very familiar Peter. I had the same a few years back, when I bought part one of Lyntons dvds, from Brownells! Still pains me now, when I think about it! That handling charge is the final kick in the backside!
I think it worked out that a $50/$60 dvd ended up costing a total of £80-£90! ($130) Ouch.

The Americans are so damn lucky! (not that I'm bitter or jealous, you understand) lol

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Jo, I’m also living and working in Europe. I purchase almost all GRS tools from the stone setter: engraver shop in Antwerp. Maxim always has the best price and is able to order whatever I want quite fast.

Here is the link to his website, perhaps you can call Maxim, If you do give him my regards.

http://alexandreschool.com/cms/shop-information/grs-engraving-devices/

arnaud

 

[tundratrekers@mtaonline.n]

Joe,buy one in europe,be happy to pay the tariff.
If you want american.

Don't think we are so lucky!
Because you have the govt. tariffs,discourages other countries from infringing on the local makers.
Since we no longer have this here,it has run almost all manufacturing overseas,and allows our markets to be taken over by the WAL MARTS of the world,because it costs nothing to import.
I suggest keeping your money at home.
Italy has a few vise makers.
Might even have one made locally.
Theres good plans in James Meeks book,The Art of Engraving.
mike
mike

 

[Marrinan]

At one time we did an engraving exchange here. Several of use did an engraving job, then names were selected and we shipped our piece to the proper recipient. I got a wonderful hobo nickle. I sent a cheap stainless steel knife to Estonia-engraved of course. I made the mistake of insuring it for five hundred dollars-The recipient had to pay one hundred dollars import duty. He was a little pis%^^& off to say the least. Fred

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Yes Fred, we thing the world is getting smaller as we can communicate that easy. I can not even sent a present like Belgium Chocolate to a friend to the US, as then my friend has to pay almost as much as I paid for the chocolates.
The authorities don't believe a company is sending present was the remark I had.

arnaud

 

[mrthe]

Mike you are right , in italy we have some vise maker and in europe too, for example now from Spain will be avaible the new En-vises from Syenset too, very good quality i have test it, the italians and the syenset's, the only that i haven't try yet are the Lindsay's vices and i can't compare, and at the moment i have to say in honesty, if someone ask to me what buy,the GRS are the best ones.
Fred is a pain true, sometimes i trade some of my hobo nickels with friends in USA for books or tools and the best way is mark it with a very low value no more than 20$ in Spain for example if you recive some item from a friend not a customer or company if the value is less than 45$ you haven't to pay anything but if the values is more higger you have to pay 18 € more the 18% of vat ever, from companyes or customers the same if the value is higger than 20$.
if you ship to friends always put little values no mark like gift can give more problems to yours friends.

 

[richard hall]

It is pretty hard to get the economies going with these "value added" taxes and tariffs..Countries that need to import all the time, need to create jobs in industry to make themselves and their country, less dependent...

 

[akintagleocarving]

Hi Jo
I am from UK but recently living in Switzerland and my supplier for GRS and other engraving stuff is ART Support. Check their website www.artsupport.ch. I found Art support is reasonably good in delivery and prices.
Hope this is of any help.
AK

 

[Artemiss]

Hi guys,

Thanks again for all you suggestions and comments.

It would seem that the majority of you have always had to deal with your local GRS distributors, so maybe I should quite *****ing, and be grateful of what I've managed to buy direct, up til now!

I've been in contact with Suttons (UK), and Rio Grande (fantastic website). RG still comes out around £60 ($90ish) cheaper than Suttons, even after all shipping and taxes are taken into account!

Suttons did mention that their website was not up to scratch, and that they have a new one being built, which should go online within the next week or so.

AK, I did look at ArtSupport briefly, especially as I have a friend in Geneva, who comes back to the UK relatively frequently. Unfortunately, I don't speak German, and very little French, so the site's fairly difficult to navigate - even with the help of google translate!

Jo

 

[TyG]

I deal dirct With Josh and have nothing but perfect service. There are 2 retailers that sell their equipment here in Australia but I can still buy direct. Talk to Josh and mention my name, may even get a discount. Ty

 

[Artemiss]

Thanks Ty.

GRS have said this is their 'new distribution policy'. I'm guessing if that is the case, it's only been implemented within the last month, since the last time I contacted them.

How long ago is it that you dealt with them?

Jo

 

[celticjohn]

I had the same dilema some years ago. The cost of a vice and attachments from Sutton in the UK was a LOT more expensive than shipping it from Rio Grande allowing for the currency conversion and the taxes and duties. I had it sent BASIC courier service. I still saved a heap of money. Suttons have a decent website with prices....suttontools.co.uk for comparison.....going with Rio Grande will still work out a lot cheaper in the long term especially with the dollar the way it is at the moment.

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Suttons aren't cheap, that's for sure but what we tend to forget is they have to make a living too and if there are warranty issues they have to be dealt with here in the UK by said company under European laws. When I read some of the horror stories that US consumers run into on other forums it makes America look like it's in the dark ages when it come to consumer protection. But we do end up paying for it. Luckily GRS is a good company that stands by it's products but I must admit there is a weird shipping price list they go by. To be fair though, people have to be paid and I can vouch for the time it takes to pack and ship something well from my eBay selling experiences. It can take ages and the packaging doesn't come for free.

But $16 shipping for one graver blank is well out of order. I've just ordered 10 blanks from SL and his shipping was under $7 for first class air.

 

[Artemiss]

Marcus, I do agree, everyone has to make a living. But in doing the sums, Suttons could still make a profit, selling at GRS retail prices. They choose to want a bigger slice of the cake. (can't blame them of course).
In these days of a global village, your prices are either competative, or you lose business.

Similar story... I just ordered a few bits from Chris' site, shipping was $5! :biggrin:
I do prefer Steve's blanks though. They're slightly shorter than GRS', so they're a little better for me, with smaller hands.

Congrats on your new guitar btw! May the two of you be very happy together!

Jo

 

[Andrew Biggs]

When it comes to postage it's a real mixed bag in any country.

Most companies ship by UPS/FedEx etc etc which are basically a courier service which is faster than normal post but also more expensive. Most mail order/internet companies use a courier service to get the goods to you as fast as they can. That is the expectations of the customer in today's market. So this is the actual courier cost.

Then you have to factor in the price to pack, label, invoice and handle an item ready for shipping. This is the labour and materials cost and generally it is the labour cost that is the most significant. On smaller, and in particular cheaper items you have to be very careful. If you don't charge the handling fee you will end up losing money on the transaction. Not so bad if it's one transaction.....................but if it's several thousand over a year then all of a sudden your profit margins are considerably down. There are standard tried and true business formulas for all of this type of thing

You can incorporate all of this into your unit price of the item..................but that doesn't really work either because on the smaller/cheaper items you have to double the unit price just in case someone orders one graver at a time.........which makes the unit overpriced. If you threw in one graver with a larger item it wouldn't make any difference to the shipping price

This is standard practice all over the world with 99% of businesses that deal in internet/mail order sales. The other 1% tend to be more small family type businesses where the swings and roundabouts approach works better and they don't have to pay staff wages and benefits every week like the bigger companies.

The easiest way around it all is to make sure on the smaller/cheaper items that you order a few at a time or mix and match your orders. The reality is that it costs the company the same amount of money to process 10 gravers as it does one..............don't forget, they have to make money as well and if they don't, then they will be out of business very quickly or not offering the wide range of product that they do right now. So we all lose in the end.

As for dealers. That's a tough one. Everyone needs to make their cut otherwise they won't be in business for very long. They have to pay all the taxes/duties and all the rest of it plus bang on their own profit margin to keep their doors open. Then they have to have stock sitting on the shop floor for days/weeks/months/years. Being a retailer is far from being an easy money business. For every one successful retailer there are about 100 that go out of business and lose the shirts off their backs.

One thing I have very much noticed and something I don't think most Americans fully appreciate is that in the USA consumer goods are very cheap. And that still applies when you take in the relativity with average income. When you travel outside the USA and include exchange rates things are a lot more expensive. It always blows me away when I travel to the USA just how cheap things are when you are working and living there and that is factoring in the exchange rate from New Zealand dollars.

At the end of the day it's just all standard business fare and none of it is over the top. We are very lucky to have the suppliers we have today and to be able to pick and choose who we buy from.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[KCSteve]

Not to deflect us off into politics, but a whole lot of why 'things' are cheaper in the USA is because our tax burden is lower. As bad as it feels to us with our taxes here, the VATs in most countries add their bite at every step in the chain and that kind of thing adds up fast.

Add to that the other factors, such as being able to get something anywhere in the Continental US in a couple of days without shipping by air (well, for GRS & Lindsay, both located in the center) and the fact that, as noted, an overseas supplier has to guess what's going to be wanted in the next few months if they want to be able to ship from their own stores without going broke and you can see where the price advantages come from.

I can see another issue the overseas dealers have to deal with: these days as soon as they build up a stock of something it seems like a newer, better version comes out and makes their stock obsolete.

On the other hand, those of us in the USA who want something from your side(s) of the world tend to have even more problems getting what we want.

For the occasional small item I think the best thing to do is to have a few friends who can act as agents for you and send you a 'gift'.

 

[rayf24]

I have had the same as others here in the UK the price of postage that is being charged by people and companies in the US for engraving related products is a JOKE. My wife tried to order a book from GRS ( ron smiths advanced scroll design) for my birthday she had no problem with the price of the book (because she loves me I hope or maybe it would just keep my in the workshop ?? ) BUT GRS emailed back the handling and postage they wanted was the near the same as the book price $69 postage if I remember correct, Yet I have had other books from the states with postage approx $12 and also had items from Christian (engraversstudio) and his postage is also very reasonable so why are others charging obsene prices.
I have had many other items NOT ENGRAVING RELATED and the postage has been no were near these cost one item was 20 No toggle air valve switches and the postage on them was £14.00 and arrived in one week NOT six weeks and a set of 10x wide angle eye peices for my nikon scope postage again $12 and on this basis I for one wont deal with GRS or there products while they have this attitude it seems that if its engraving related they charge what they like it time some there had a re thing or the chinese or others will take there share of the market.
Ray

 

[Suttontools]

Just to put everyone in the picture, last October Glendo decided to appoint Artsupport in Switzerland as their exclusive European dealer. They won't deal with anyone in Europe except through Arsupport. Artsupport asked us to be their UK dealer and we said yes rather than than stop dealing in GRS equipment. We had recently had great success matching prices from US dealers but now we have to buy from Artsupport, so prices have risen. However, Artsupport are good people and are carrying significant stocks in Switzerland, plus a service capability. We are trying to build up our stocks and service from Artsupport has been fast. Remember our prices include import duty and shipping from USA and we only charge a maximum of £8.88 UK shipping irrespective of weight. I hope this helps to clarify the new distribution channels for GRS in Europe. I'm a new member and look forward to reading the forums, learning more about engraving and having a go. After all I've got the tools.

Geoff Field

 

[mrthe]

rayf24 you have to see if the service offered from GRS and the one if Christian DeCamillis are the same with usps you can send internatinal shipping in differents way, express, pryority, ecc. and have differents prices maybe GRS offer a quick and insured shipment way and DeCamillis other, all the way a months ago i have trade one of my hobos fir the fantastic Bleile 's book 21 century engravers, and the shipping costs from a friend for a item like this was around 50$ with priority mail that is one pf the more cheap, like you can see is not a problem of from you recive the items , but how he sent it to you