New to this

[Mack]

OK here goes !
I am new to this site. I am very new to engraving.
I was a bench jeweler for many years. I got my start by on the job training, and after 6 years went on my own.
I used gravers for stone setting and that was pretty much all. I kept saying I was going to learn engraving but I didn't know anyone who did that, and didn't know where to start. I have " The Jewelry Engravers Manual" and "The Art of Engraving" but still cant get the hang of it. I know it will take years but it is frustrating when I keep slipping so much. I know the sharpening of the graver is really important and I have a Crocker sharpener. Still I keep slipping, but now I am 62 years old and I am determined to do it. I met a Jeweler just last week who engraves some, and who helped me a little. I want to learn "chase" engraving more than push engraving. I do not have and probably never will have the money for an air compressed machine. I am on a fixed income and just can't do it. My hobby now that I am retired is making knives especially lockback folders and liner locks. I don't make fancy stuff, just working knives, but I wouldn't mind putting some engraving on some of them. Most of my practice is on brass since that is what I will be engraving on eventually and I have quite a bit of it. I practice on it and then grind it off and practice some more. I have an optivisor on the way. Mine got lost somewhere along the way. I am working now with a magnifier lamp.
My biggest question is what kind of handles do chase engravers have? I have set mine in 1/2" aluminum rod. and it seems to work but I can't find anything on what anyone else has done. I make my own handles for the push engravers and make some of the gravers out of O-1 tool steel, since I have that for knives. I made one the other day out of a steel bed rail, and it seems to be better then the O-1 but I don't know what kind of steel it is.
I am retired with a disability. I have had several spine surgeries so I can't engrave for long periods but by gosh I am going to learn this if it is the last thing I do. Some way Some how.
Can someone tell me how to set handles on the chase engravers? Thanks, and by the way, I LOVE this site. Mack

 

[Tira]

Welcome Mack! There are many hand push and hammer and chisel engravers here who will be able to help you out, I'm sure. Many people make their own handles from many different materials. One handle that is available for sale and doesn't break the bank is a Belgian style handle from Ngraver Company. I had trouble with their web page loading for the info this morning, but here is the link to the price list page:

Ngraver Price List

On the top of the page it gives the address and phone number for the company. The handles are listed about half way down the page near "chasing hammer" and I've heard that the #3 is a good style - and the price is right at $6.

I hope you keep the fire in your belly about this art. No matter when you start you'll fall in love with it there is always something else to learn and someone to help you here. Good luck and keep us posted on your journey.

 

[Sam]

Hi Mack, and welcome to the Cafe. My chisel handles are McKenzie style, and are 4" long by 3/4" in diameter (101mm x 19mm). They have a brass ferrule on the end, but it's not the end of the world if they lack them. To mount the gravers I would drill an undersize hole into the wooden handle, clamp the graver into a vise with the tang exposed, and drive the handle onto the graver's tang. If you would like to make handles like this, a 3/4" hardwood dowel should work just fine.

As Tira said, the Belgian style handles are available from Ngraver. I never went back to steel handles once I started using wood. After seeing McKenzie's work and the incredible work by the Belgians, I'm not convinced either material is superior.

Cheers / ~Sam

 

[Mack]

So you can hit a wood handle with a chasing hammer and get enough shock to make a good cut in the metal? I wouldn't have thought! Mack

 

[Sam]

Absolutely. Wooden handles work beautifully.

You might consider getting McKenzie's videos. Maybe Brownell's sells them.

 

[diandwill]

Occasionally a used Gravermeister becomes available, on ebay or through the classifieds here. They are a self contained unit, so no additional compressor is needed. They aren't as nice as the gravermach or gravermax, but I use one at work and they are very servicable.
They also present far less shock to the bones and muscular system than using a chasing hammer. It may save you a lot of pain, in the long run, and not be an overly expensive proposition.
Good luck, and keep cutting. It's a wonderful avocation, or, if you're lucky, vocation.
Will

 

[Ron Smith]

Mack, I use wooden handle chisel tools as well as push gravers.

Slipping:
Tool geometry and sharp tools, are very important. Cutting on brass, depending on the alloys, is not good to practice on to begin with. Very slippery most of the time. Cold rolled steel, copper, any scrap steel not tempered will work better than brass. You need very good control to master cutting brass. Don't handicap your precious practice time.

You might be able to find scrap materials at salvage yards or like places. Punch outs from metal fabrication are good pieces to use for practice. You can cut them up to suit you.

Look in the tips section and you will find all kinds of good information on about any subject.

Hope this helps....

Ron S

 

[Mack]

Thanks everyone for your input. I need all the help I can get.
Ron, the reason I am using brass is because it is what I make my pocket knife bolsters out of and what I will eventually be engraving on. However I will start practicing on some steel. I am a inventor and machinery designer of sorts and so I have a lot of scrap steel and aluminum.
As for the wooden handles I am concerned that the end of the graver will drive deeper into the wood as time go on. Unlike the tang on wood chisels, gravers are very thin and like a nail may drive into the handle when using a chasing hammer on metal. Path of the least resistance so to speak. Maybe I will try setting the graver into a small piece of round stock and then set that into a wood handle. Being a knife maker I have some really nice wood. Anyway thanks very much. I am glad to be able to get advice. Before I started engraving I knew that I knew next to nothing about engraving. Now I know that I know even less than I thought. No wonder there are so few engravers. Mack

 

[Sam]

Mack: If you use something like pine, then the graver might work its way deeper into the handle. If you're using hardwood that's not going to be an issue. My handles are made from rosewood and ebony, and some of McKenzie's early handles were maple file handles with ferrule. If you have access to a lathe or drill press, bore an undersized hole and drive the handle onto the graver.

 

[John B.]

Hi Mack,
Not to conflict with Sam and Ron about the handles they use, they create beautiful work, but I agree with Tira on this one.
The big feature with the Ngraver Belgium style handle is that they are made of square stock.
This allows you to feel the orientation of the graver just by holding it in your hand. You don't need to look at the blade to see if it's upright or leaned over.
When the Browning/FN factory had over 200 engravers working they all used hammer and square handled chisels. And most of the fine Belgium engravers still do. The old Browning/FN gravers were made in one piece, both handle and blade forged together.
The Ngraver handles have a set screw and allow you to insert your own choice of graver. The handles are designed to be used with the set screw facing up and provide a flat surface for your palm. This and the two flat sides between your fingers and thumb give you very fine control over the rotation of the tool.
Just my opinion, and as you can see others have different ideas.

Best of luck with your engraving adventure, Mack.
Regards, John B.

 

[Sam]

Good points, John. Here's a shot of our Belgium buddy all star Phil Grifnee working with hammer & steel handled chisel.
~Sam

 

[John B.]

Thanks, Sam.
Good to see a picture of our buddy Phil making it look soooo easy!

Another thing for Mack and others to consider is that the Ngraver handles allow you to remove the graver blade for sharpening in one of the fixtures.
Sam and Ron can and do tell you, it is most important for newer engraves to have correct angles on their tools to obtain consistant results.
Old time engravers......not as important. Many of them have enough experience to adjust by the feel of the tool in their hand as long as it has some kind of decent point.

Best, John B.

 

[Mack]

That sounds really great I have to get a couple and try them. I love to make my own stuff so I will copy them for my own use. Thank you, Mack

 

[John B.]

Mack, if you do make some handles for yourself drill and tap them the same as the original Ngraver handles on one flat side.
Then also drill and tap them at a 45 degree angle to that flat.
This allows you to tighten a square shank graver, "diamond" or flat into the 1/8" hole and still hold the square handle with the flat side next to your palm.

Best, John B.