New boy from Down Under

[Ozgraver]

Hello, I found this forum from Sam's site (where I've just bought his graver sharpening DVD. I'd love to attend some classes, but unfortunately that's not possible.

Despite not being able to attend a class, I'm about to give engraving a go on my own. I've taught myself other skills, so I'm not daunted by the prospect, but not having even seen anyone engrave before, I realise it's going to be a slow learning curve.

The biggest obstacle I face at the moment is not knowing what's needed to start off with. I've managed to sort out a ball vice and I already have a couple of different magnifying visors, but as for the rest of it, I just don't know.

Until I get to a reasonable level of proficiency, I can't justify an air-assisted handset which means I need some push gravers and handles. I've seen plenty of gravers for sale which mostly appear to be traditional flat bladed tools. I've also seen and read about advances with square (90°-120°) gravers and I figure as I'm starting out with no preconceptions or bad habits, I should avail myself of the latest technology.

I may have totally misunderstood the differences between hand and air-assisted tooling; are square gravers predominantly for air-assisted engraving, or are they currently the popular choice for push engraving too?

I want to purchase a reasonable beginner's kit, but I'm at a loss as to which shapes and sizes of gravers to select. I am mainly interested in lettering (monograms) and some brightcut vine and acanthus scrolling.

I've seen pictures of some of your benches and while I can't afford racks full of gravers, I also don't want to limit my learning by restricting myself to just a few gravers - I want to experiment!

Would any of you be kind enough to recommend a basic kit to get me going? The sort of shopping list you would give a neighbour or grandson who is keen to get started would be very helpful.

I'm sure Sam's DVD will address the issue, but I'm just wondering if I can get away with traditional oil stones, or is it currently frowned on to use anything less than diamond abrasives?

Ultimately I intend to work on silver; however, I imagine I'll practice on something less expensive for the foreseeable future! In view of my aspirations, which would be the most suitable practice material; brass, copper or steel and what thickness?

Thank you in anticipation.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Welcome aboard Ozgraver

It's nice to have one of our Australian cousins here.

The answer to all your questions is very achieveable and here you will find a wealth of information.

To get yourself started in the world of engraving I would recommend the following.

1. The book "the art of engraving" by James meek
2. The book "the basics firearms engraving" By Neil Hartleip

These two books will give you an idea on cutting etc and are very good.

3. The book "Advanced drawing of scrolls" by Ron Smith. Excellent for scroll design and layout.
4. The video "basic engraving" by Lynton McKenzie (who also happens to be Australian) This will show you how to cut with hammer and chisel and push graver (burin)

5. Some square gravers (you will want others in the future but square will do most things for line cutting)
You can get them at GRS, NGraver and Steve Lindsay. Go for the HSS or Glensteel blanks first as they are easier to sharpen on ordinary Arkansas stones.

6. Some Belgium handles from NGraver to hold the square gravers when you use hammer and chisel. You could make these yourself or buy them for $6 (US) each.

7. Some mushroom handles for the pushgravers available at GRS

8. Sharpening stones........diamond or Arkansas

9. A chasing hammer for hammer and chisel work (or you could make one)

That's about it really. All of that will get you started well and truly.

There is one other thing I would recommend if your budget stretches that far............

10. A decent sharpening system. GRS sell the Dual Angle Sharpener and power hone. Steve Lindsay has also brought out a sharpening system that uses templates and diamond stones. It is not essential but will save you a lot of grief in the long run if you can get up and running with your sharpening

Your practice plates could be mild steel or copper roughly 2-3 inches square.

The two things that you will need more than anything is patience and practice.

Good luck on your new adventure and I wish you well

Cheers
Andrew

 

[rodstan]

Welcome as well Ozgraver,
There are a few Aussies on the forum that I know of.You may be able to get first hand help from others already on board.If you are near Adelaide South Oz, give a yell. I have both Lindsay and GRS systems plus push gravers etc.if you want to try them out.
What Andrew has said above holds true for requirements.Gravers etc are available in Oz. GRS tools are available through H.O.J. in Sydney although a bit dearer than getting from the US. Another source is Koodak in Melbourne.
Regards
Rod
Adelaide

 

[Ozgraver]

Thanks for the welcome! Rodstan, unfortunately you're too far away for me to try your equipment - I'm in Melbourne. But many thanks for the kind offer all the same.

I'll buy a few bits and pieces and make a start. No doubt I'll be back again soon for copious amopunts of advice!

 

[threefingerdave]

Ozgraver
Here is a link to a video of an engraver ..... if you search around "you tube" there are more also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-e_hcEHURY
He is using an air powered hand piece but it helps me just to see engraving
welcome aboard
Dave

 

[Ozgraver]

Thanks threefingerdave, that's most useful.

 

[monk]

welcome aboard ! the first thing to do is probably learn to draw and practice this till you acquire the equipment to start actual engraving. drawing will be the foundation of all you do as an engraver. in spite of the computers and all the techno junk, good drawing skills must be developed. good luck.

 

[Ron Smith]

Ozgraver, to add to what others have said, I noticed that your desires were in lettering and monogramming. This was my bread and butter for most of my career, and that is wise if you intend to do engraving occupationally. It is the easiest way to create a volume for some sort of steady income. You can begin learning to cut with the square graver, but in doing block lettering, you can do it with a "script" tool, but it is slow..............sooooo, You might want to include a few small liners, say 6/2 6/4 6/6 and practice with these. You can fill them in for a full set later. You may need to break them back an inch or so as there is usually too much curve full length, and too long for the hand. They will need to be bent gravers if you don't know how to shape them yourself, but start and learn to cut with the square "script" graver (jewelry engraving lingo) and practice with the liners too. Next, the JM Bergling books are a good source for accurate lettering styles, monograms and mythology figures in addition to the other sources mentioned before......Hopes this helps you get started.................Ron S

Also, you can sharpen quite easily with the Mackenzie method if the price of equipment is bogging you down.
That consists of a stone and dowel. There are some tapes made by him that suppliers carry. It would be worth your while to get your tool geometry in your mind accurately, as that is usually the most difficult part of beginning to cut. You can't hit or miss on that. If you don't get that right, you are losing time.
Practice on copper or cold rolled steel. You might find scraps at your local metal scrap or metal distributers.

 

[Ozgraver]

Thanks Ron that's invaluable advice too.

 

[pierre]

hi Oz,
You don't must have a lot of tool to begin, there's a picture of mine, i do 90% of my work whith these one.
good luck in your learning
Pierre

 

[Ozgraver]

Pierre, I think you're probably talented though!

 

[Abigail]

Welcome Ozgraver!
We'll be waiting to see your first project!
Cheers,
Abigail

 

[Warrimoo]

Dear Ozgraver,
Give me a ring on (02)47 536 494 most evenings. I can give you details of an engraver living in Geelong who has done our local engraving course and whom I'm sure will be only too happy to give advise and assist you.
Ray Piper (Warrimoo)
rvp1@optusnet.com.au

 

[TyG]

Welcome Ozgraver, good to know we have another engraver here. If you are up this way you would be welcome to visit my workshop and I could show you what I know. I try to run a class each year, the last 2 years we have had Jeremiah Watt and now looking waht we will do next year. Ty

 

[Cloudy]

www.engraversstudio.com offers great online classes- just finished up on with an Aussie as a classmate- great stuff and Chris DeCamillis is a whiz of a teacher- great resource!

 

[monk]

yeah, oz-what they all said + whatever way you decide to sharpen, such as the "mckenzie" way, you must do it consistently each time. a way to vary your angles more consistently, would be to use rods of greater or lesser diameter to vary your angles. or find a way to measure the graver blank when you have it ride up on the rod for sharpening.

 

[Dulltool]

I don't know if anyone noticed but this a thread from Feb. 2008

 

[mehoose]

Revival of an old thread is fine with me. I'm looking into what courses and/or who is available in AUS for future reference. So far found the course in Sydney and a gentleman in Victoria. The one in Vic appears to only be hand pushed. Info no matter how old is good. Keep em comin! :big grin:

 

[JJ Roberts]

Ozgraver gave up engraving do to health problems,I think it had to with his eye sight.Ozgraver sold all his tools to a fellow Australian.I also beleive he was watch maker & a jeweler,anyone else remember him? J.J.

 

[Roger Bleile]

JJ,

I think you are correct as I remember it. Oz has not been to this forum in more than 2 years according to his profile.

Roger