Help, please: Need Input for engraving product development

[Ray Cover]

Hey everyone I need some input. I am here on behalf of my youngest daughter Rachel.

Since I got my wood lathe going I have had a hard time keeping her off of it. She has made several pens and played with spindles, Christmas tree ornaments etc.

I have her turning some graver handles for me. She has the idea to turn a bunch of these and try to sell them. That's is where we need your input.

The one below is one for me out of walnut but our concept is for her to make them out of fancier woods like curly koa, curly maple, burls, exotic hardwoods, etc. Heck I have bunch of Mediterranean burl I may have her make me a few out of.

The brass ferrules she is making from scratch on the metal lathe and I am having her make them with about 1/32 wall thickness so people can engrave the ferrules if they like. She can ship them with the ferrules loose so they can be engraved and then glued on.

We would like input from her potential customer base on a few things.

price point:
How much will people be willing to pay for these? I am thinking $15-$35 each depending on how fancy the turning is and what kind of woods used. Some of the fancier exotic woods will cost her $8-$10 just for the wood so she would obviously need to adjust the price for more costly materials. The one pictured would be a basic one. Does that sound like a reasonable price point for hand made graver handles?

Sizes to make:
Right now this is fun for her and I want to keep it that way. I do not want to let this turn into something stressful for her. Therefore, I WILL NOT allow her to take "custom" orders. So we are looking for about three standard sizes. Overall length x overall diameter of the mushroom head.
This one below is made for me. I have short stubby hands and prefer smaller handles This one is 2 1/8" long by 1 1/8" diameter. That will be the small size. What should we design for a medium and a large?

Any input is welcome and appreciated.

 

[silverchip]

One suggestion would to make the ferrules longer and the necks a little finer.I like the first on the left of the four sketches the best.How about checkering the top for better grip? Add another great skill to her portfolio of new talent!!!!

 

[GTJC460]

Would it be possible to make the ferrule with a "quick change" function?

 

[Ray Cover]

Thanks for the input Silverchip,

The ferrules on these are 3/8" diameter by approx 1/2" long. You would recommend maybe 5/16 dia by 3/4 Long on the ferrules? That's about as small dia as we could practically make them and at that the wood stem inside the ferrule would only be 1/4" dia.

I am a little concerned with letting hat stem get too small. I don't want it to get too weak in the neck area where the ferrule butts up to the wood.

Have any suggestions on price points or overall sizes?

Again thanks,

Ray

 

[Ray Cover]

{Would it be possible to make the ferrule with a "quick change" function? }

Common guys we're dealing with a 15 year old kid here not an experienced machinist. If your asking if she can make them use the GRS holders, probably not. All of mine are "quick change" though. Here is how I do it.

I drill a hole about 3/4" deep that s just a snug fit for the square graver blank. I square off the end of my graver blank on the diamond hone and apply a thin coat of Vaseline on the end of the graver blank. Then I mix up some 5 minute epoxy and glue the blank in oriented the way I want it. Once the epoxy is cured I take a pair of pliers and pull the grave blank out. The Vaseline works as a mold release and you are left with a nice square hole molded into the end of the handle that is snug enough to hold the blank in for use, yet is loose enough that you can easily pull the blank out for resharpening.

In that way these can be quick change. However it only works with graver blanks of the same brand. Ngraver, Lindsay blanks and GRS blanks are all a few thousandths different in dimension form each other. So whatever brand you molded your hole with would be the only brand to really fit that particular handle.

 

[DKanger]

Ray,
Just sent you a PM

 

[GTJC460]

{Would it be possible to make the ferrule with a "quick change" function? }

Common guys we're dealing with a 15 year old kid here not an experienced machinist. If your asking if she can make them use the GRS holders, probably not. All of mine are "quick change" though. Here is how I do it.

I drill a hole about 3/4" deep that s just a snug fit for the square graver blank. I square off the end of my graver blank on the diamond hone and apply a thin coat of Vaseline on the end of the graver blank. Then I mix up some 5 minute epoxy and glue the blank in oriented the way I want it. Once the epoxy is cured I take a pair of pliers and pull the grave blank out. The Vaseline works as a mold release and you are left with a nice square hole molded into the end of the handle that is snug enough to hold the blank in for use, yet is loose enough that you can easily pull the blank out for resharpening.

In that way these can be quick change. However it only works with graver blanks of the same brand. Ngraver, Lindsay blanks and GRS blanks are all a few thousandths different in dimension form each other. So whatever brand you molded your hole with would be the only brand to really fit that particular handle.

I had no idea how old your daughter was. Please excuse my ignorance.

 

[Willem Parel]

I like them all Ray especialy the number 1 at the right in the drawing.
And if she need some more idea's for the future ?? inlay's with different colours of wood make them even more special. (but a lot of work)

 

[Ray Cover]

No harm no foul Bert. My goal here is to help her get this rolling and then let her run it with guidance and advice from Mom and Dad. My job as overseer and protector here is to keep her from getting in over her head. I should have stated her age earlier. A lot of folks on here know Rachel from the engrave ins at Scott's place. I didn't' stop to think that most of the folks on here don't know my kids are teenagers still.

Those are cool Willem.

 

[Kevin Scott]

Ray, from a strictly business point of view, I don't think this will work. I don't like to pay over $2 for a handle. Would pay up to $5 for a handle that is easy to adjust graver length, easy to remove and reinstall to the same spot, feels good, looks good. So far have not found it. Would rather have alot of inexpensive handles and keep a graver in each one, than a few expensive handles and switch gravers around. Maybe there would be a market for special presentation gravers, but the market would be limited. But others may think different.

Added a link here. This guy has been trying to sell gravers with special handles for some time, without much luck.

By asking potential customers for thoughts is a great first step before making a product. Already your daughter is learning. Keep thinking together, and you will come up with something. And even if you two don't you will have learned alot.
Good luck.






http://http://www.ebay.com/csc/spring2011*zh/m.html?rt=nc&LH_Complete=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3911.c0.m283

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Ray

It's great to see the kids get fired up about things and launching themselves into the world. They are very, very nice looking handles and you can't beat pride of ownership with your tools. Even Lynton McKenzie talked about it in his first DVD when he mentioned making handles out of Rosewood (?)

And..............the word "No" is the most under utilized word in the English language

Cheers
Andrew

 

[RoycroftRon]

I tried to get my daughter motivated to draw scrolls... just in case. I gave her a sketchbook and said that if she filled it I would get her a (fill in tech device of the moment). This was about a year ago. She is about half way there. She is 13. She draws well, but she is a little slow. Perfectionist.

Ray I would buy one if they were signed. I also like the profile of the first one in the sketches.

 

[KCSteve]

Ray

Since I don't do push engraving I'm more of a spectator on this thread, but a suggestion for an 'adjustable' quick change: fill the cavity with ThermoLoc. Then when you have a blank that doesn't quite fit you just warm the ThermoLoc (heat gun, hold it right under a lightbulb, etc.). Press the graver in, tamp down the TL so it locks tight around it and let it cool.

Just a thought, not something I've actually tried.

 

[Red Green]

Ray,

I have carved handles with the ability to easily remove the graver or whatever you wish to put in it. I use a plumbing compression nut and make it like a wooded pen vice by crosscutting the end when it’s a little too large and cutting threads while the wood is in compression, works great and not hard to do.

Bob

 

[Andrew Biggs]

OK, I have my moderators hat on for this one.

Please let's keep this thread about Ray's daughters beautiful graver handles and leave it at that.

Much appreciated

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Red Green]

Gosh Mr. Biggs,:thinking:

I didn’t mean to cause a problem, I do rub some people the wrong way sometimes. I’ll try to watch my fingers when I type from now on. Was it the compression nuts or my general attitude:banana: that caused your displeasure?

Bob

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Red

Nothing wrong with your compressed nuts

I deleted a few posts that were way off topic and yours just happened to be the post above mine.

So......type away

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Big-Un]

Ray, I like the second from the right as far as design, plus the ferrel is easier to engrave on. I would probably purchase a few if the cost was relative to the wood species. I'm not sure what the price should be; I'll leave that up to you and your daughter. Good job with getting her interested in artisanal projects. Way too many people are leading their children towards anything other than what can be done by hand. As we all know, when you do it yourself with your own hands and God given talent, the rewards are astounding.

Bill

 

[JJ Roberts]

Ray,I try to post some picture of a few of the antique wood push graver handels I've collected over the years,you may get some ideas for your new project that you and your daughter working on.J.J.

 

[Ray Cover]

Great Idea JJ, Thanks for the offer.