My goal of becoming a Master Engraver...

[Bunic]

...is being greatly hindered by my instructor! Today I showed him about ten scrolls that I had labored over. (As you know, I can't move on to scrolls with leaves until the Big Kahuna says my leafless scrolls are OK first.) He OK'd NONE of them!!

But all is not lost... He said my overall grade for my scroll drawing attempts had gone up - from an F to an F+!! Wooohoooo!!

He saw the drawing below in my sketch pad and suggested I share it as a possible (distant future!) bulino rendering:

Mike

Back to the drawing pad...

 

[FANCYGUN]

Nice drapery work. It's not easy to do

 

[bronc]

Very nice.

Stewart

 

[monk]

i'm not sure how all this works, but threaten to withold his money till he graduates you with high honors, say to an e-. then maybe he will let you advance to doing leaf work. or cheat, do em anyway, when he aint lookin.

 

[eastslope]

That is amazing how you got the shading on the folds and creases perfect. Thank you for posting, Seth

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Nice pencil work Mike

arnaud

 

[Sam]

very nice indeed.

 

[Cloudy]

fantastic drawing!

 

[mitch]

hi Mike-

maybe you've already been taught this trick, but in case you haven't- when drawing scrolls it's important to turn them around a lot and study them from all angles. you'll be surprised at how often a scroll that looks fine from one side looks like a dung beetle's dinner when viewed upside down. this works for pretty much any style of scroll engraving, too. the only other 'trick' i know is to draw about a million of them...

 

[vilts]

That's a nice drawing.

But does F+ means extra fail or little fail?

 

[Marrinan]

It appears the the "Big Kahuna" has some Big plans for your skill in art. Fred

 

[Bunic]

Gents,

Thanks for looking and commenting. I've worked years at this kind of art as many of you have with perfecting scrolls, inlay, bulino, et al. That is why I so admire your work and am quite eager to make some appreciable progress in that direction.

But, alas, I have Attila to grade my poor little scrolls.

Mike

 

[ron p. nott]

MIKE ... I hope all this great comments dont go to your head :beat up::beat up:. I want to thank every body for all of the great comments you have given Mike he is really trying hard and I am hard on him , I want him to be one of the best . after all my traing come from one of the best , the grand master god father , Fancy Gun . it is because of him I have learned to be so hard on Mikie .. Ron p

 

[Ray Cover]

Mike,

I think know what your problem is. I had it when I first started and my sister is about to overcome the same problem in her engraving. My sister and I both had formal training as artist and both have art degrees. Both of us are very good draftsmen and can handle a pencil like Wyatt Earp and Doc Holiday could handle a six gun. Both of us also struggled in the beginning with drawing basic scrolls.

It looks to me like you also have had a fair amount of art training based on the few pics I have seen you post. If the artwork you posted is the result of pure raw talent with no training my hat is off to you.

Here is my theory. Keep in mind this is just a theory based on what you have posted on the forum. The problem obviously is not in your manual dexterity or your hands ability to wield a pencil. It obviously is not a problem with your eye's ability to see and judge spacial relationships. I think it has to do with way your brain processes information.

Are you familiar with Betty Edwards book "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain"? If not you need to get the book and work through the first 9 chapters of the book. That will give you a good understanding of what happens mentally during the drawing process.

Here is a thumbnail sketch of what I think is going on and how to fix it.
The two sides of the brain process information differently.

The right brain deals with details, factual sight information like spacial and directional relationships, creativity, complexity, emotions, etc. This side deals with the more "Artistic" and emotional though processes.

The left side of the brain is more like a computer. It reduces information into symbols and formulas and deals with it in a logical manner.

In most Americans the left brain is dominant because of the way our culture and our school systems have trained us. SO for most people, learning how to draw scroll work is easier than representational artwork because they can learn to draw it in a mechanical systematic way that the left brain can appreciate.

But for people like you and I that gets turned on its head. You already have a fairly well developed set of right brain skills. The bulino and drawings you are doing are fairly complex. Your brain receives that input from your eyes and automatically sends it to the right side because logically that is where complex sight info is handled best. That is why you have no problem doing that kind of artwork....because it automatically is being sent to the proper department for processing.

Basic scroll work on the other hand is being sent to your left brain for processing. Because the basic scrolls you are trying to draw are less complex your brain is processing and treating them like a symbol and is sending that information to your left brain for processing.

IF you are not familiar with the right and left brain research as it relates to art get Edwards Book and read and do the exercises in the first 10 chapters.
IF you are familiar with it here is a suggestion on how to retrain your brain to process scroll work as complex drawing rather than a a symbol.

I recomend finding a basic McKenzie, or Nemschie (SP?) type scroll and...

-print it out on a piece of copy paper.
-take a ruler and draw a straight line against one side of it.
-on the other side of that line draw the exact mirror image of that scroll.
-as you draw do not think of the scroll in terms of parts. In other words don't think of it in terms of scroll spine, leaves, etc. Think strictly in terms of lines, how far the line goes, what direction it goes, where do lines intersect, How wide, how tall, what angle, etc etc. If you mentally give the parts names your left brain will want to take over and draw them as symbols again.

Initially you may need to copy scrolls like this for a while. After you get your thinking retrained and you can think of the scroll as any other subject to draw, then you can create and draw them on your own. But for now use scrolls in exercises like this and others out of Edwards' book until you get your brain retrained.

I have to get back tot he bench. I am a bit under the gun right now but I will try to keep up with this thread and your progress.

Ray

 

[Tom Curran]

Mike, since you can draw, you will be able to engrave. I have always held firm to the belief that if I can draw it, I can make it. I think this applies to you, too.

So many folks have such difficulty in drawing and design. Yours is a technical problem with new tools and different materials.

There is also a vast world of engraving styles, just as there is subject matter and mediums to work in, jewelry, firearms, printmaking, etc.

All this you must sort out, and you have but one lifetime. Get going, there is not a moment to be lost!

Best of luck to you, and keep us posted, please!

Tom

 

[Mario Sarto]

Hello Mike, a very nice draw and shading!
But i have a question if i may? Did you use a model? Or is it a complete free work?
I ask because of the anatomy - something doesn't fit to my eye, i think it is the lower leg which is in front to us. Looks very short according to the rest...

 

[Bunic]

Ray,

I own and have read Betty's book several times and have used it in teaching art at the local community college. But your idea of the mirror image is intriguing and I'll try it tonight and let you know the results.

My 'owner' expects me to be at his studio tonight when I was just there last night and got the F+ for my scrolls. He is relentless!

Tnx! again, Ray


Tom,

I agree! Doing bulino seems much easier to me than scrolls, so I'm working hard to get them (scrolls) right. Ron won't let me compromise!


Mario,

This is a pencil rendering of the lower half of a painting of Cleopatra. You have a good eye (or two) to catch the proportions! I was most interested in depicting the drapery, but should not have neglected the anatomy. Tnx!