Hi all, I am interested in finding out what types of equipment members are using to engrave muzzleloading rifles. Are you using a gravermach foot control or palmcontrol/airtact type systems? Are you engraving the patch box and other parts while they are still on the rifle? Do you engrave standing or sitting, depending on the type of equipment used? How are you holding the rifle and other parts while engraving them? Any light you could shed on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Regards Flintlock.
Muzzleloading Rifle Engraving
- Thread starter Flintlock
- Start date
i engraved a truckload of these guns. i don't claim expertise, but all the metal parts are commonly engraved. and-- much ache in the head is avoided if the parts are engraved before they are installed on the gun, period ! i've engraved only maybe 3 on a completed gun, is a real bugger if you're not experienced. you can use any equipment you like: hammer & chisel, manual push, modern power assisted hand-held. makes little difference. the experience makes the quality, the tool chosen can make all the difference in the time needed to complete the work. if you like, i can give you some heads up on this kind of engraving. e-mail me your phone #. i can call you for free. or you can call me i can also show fotos of holding jigs, etc.
724-328-4951 till 1 am daily. jayismonk450@gmail.com
724-328-4951 till 1 am daily. jayismonk450@gmail.com
Billzach
Elite Cafe Member
I,m glad this question come up..After carving coins for 13 years I,ve decided to work less hours per week after this year carving coins and engrave patchboxes and such..I,ve got a patchbox laying in my shop ready to be engraved, I,m searching out designs from books from the library..
mtgraver
Elite Cafe Member
It would be quite inappropriate if I didn't jump in on this. I use mostly hammer and chisel when doing my flinters. Most of the time I do the engraving on the gun and standing so I can get the fluidity of motion while making my cuts. I find the h&c seems to be the most common tools used but with that being said, I believe that in todays world we can choose from a variety of tools. If a person today wants to recreate the heavy handed look of the unrefined maker then to me the h&c is the way to go. Likewise if a person wants to create in the feel of the time, but highly refine their technique, then the power assisted helps tremendously through control, speed of completion, and beat per sec. that helps to make a cleaner cut. Some of that makes no diference if one would age their work to give an added feel of the time, then the cuts are filled with dirt, as I do on most of the rifles I build today.
I will engrave the guns using an optivisor which helps me to limit the fineness of shading on some of the patterns. I think when I use the microscope the shading can get too fine for the period style of engraving. But then again it depends on what the person wants to build.
If you haven't seen this site, check out www.longrifle.com , the Contemporary Longrifle Assoc., the annual show has contmporary and antiques to view,etc. Another site is the American Longrfiles www.americanlongrifles.org . If I were to recommend some books the best to own among hundreds would be "Golden Age of the Kentucky Rifle" by Kindig and "Colonial Arms 1 &2 " by Shumway.
I guess the bottom line is to use whatever makes it fun and gets the work done to your satisfaction. Hope tha might help a little.
If I can be further assistance just drop me a note.
Mark
www.MarkThomas-graver.com
I will engrave the guns using an optivisor which helps me to limit the fineness of shading on some of the patterns. I think when I use the microscope the shading can get too fine for the period style of engraving. But then again it depends on what the person wants to build.
If you haven't seen this site, check out www.longrifle.com , the Contemporary Longrifle Assoc., the annual show has contmporary and antiques to view,etc. Another site is the American Longrfiles www.americanlongrifles.org . If I were to recommend some books the best to own among hundreds would be "Golden Age of the Kentucky Rifle" by Kindig and "Colonial Arms 1 &2 " by Shumway.
I guess the bottom line is to use whatever makes it fun and gets the work done to your satisfaction. Hope tha might help a little.
If I can be further assistance just drop me a note.
Mark
www.MarkThomas-graver.com
Flintlock most of the originals I have examined the patchbox and inlays appeared to engraved on the gun which to me makes a lot of sense. If you have ever installed a patchbox you know that once you have it fit and everything lined up to make that latch work properly somtimes it can be a Bit#h to take off and get everything reinstalled and line back up. I personnaly engrave patchbox, inlays and nose cap on the rifle. The butt plate, trigger guard, side plate and barrel off the rifle. I do the engraving after all parts are finished, the stock carved and finished to the point it is ready for stain, I stain after the engraving is finished. If you use AF to stain be sure to neautralize the stock, the fumes off of AF will discolor brass and will continue to do so until the AF stops fuming. This discoloration can be buffed off will 4-0 steel wool.
I have used H&C but find it hard on my hands due to a touch of arthritis in my fingers. I am currently using a GraverMach & a 901 handpiece. They are a pleasure to use, my hands thank me. I still use H&C for my signature on the barrel but I have plans to set up an area just for barrel engraving to where I can use the Mach.
I sit for everything that I can but most of the time I stand for the parts that are engraved on the rifle. I currently use a 120 square and flat gravers the most but I am starting to branch out a little to other style gravers as I grow in experiance.
As far as light I use anything that I can get that helps me see what I am trying to do. I have used reading lamps that have the gator clips, floor lamps that have the flex arms, I have a GRS ring light on the scope, Natural sunlight works well, I would think that the LED lights would work but have not tried them. Fiber Optic lights are great but a little on the costly side. Use what you got, if you can't see your work go to something else.
one thing I have found out for sure, I have a hard enough time trying to engrave a design the looks half way decent that I can see, if I can't wee my work there is just no hope at all. Now there are folks out there that would swear that all my work was done in the dark!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA!!!!
Good Luck
I have used H&C but find it hard on my hands due to a touch of arthritis in my fingers. I am currently using a GraverMach & a 901 handpiece. They are a pleasure to use, my hands thank me. I still use H&C for my signature on the barrel but I have plans to set up an area just for barrel engraving to where I can use the Mach.
I sit for everything that I can but most of the time I stand for the parts that are engraved on the rifle. I currently use a 120 square and flat gravers the most but I am starting to branch out a little to other style gravers as I grow in experiance.
As far as light I use anything that I can get that helps me see what I am trying to do. I have used reading lamps that have the gator clips, floor lamps that have the flex arms, I have a GRS ring light on the scope, Natural sunlight works well, I would think that the LED lights would work but have not tried them. Fiber Optic lights are great but a little on the costly side. Use what you got, if you can't see your work go to something else.
one thing I have found out for sure, I have a hard enough time trying to engrave a design the looks half way decent that I can see, if I can't wee my work there is just no hope at all. Now there are folks out there that would swear that all my work was done in the dark!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA!!!!
Good Luck
jerrywh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I have done a lot of antique gun engraving and making. It matters not if it is done by hammer and chisel or a machine assist. The engraving methods do not require one to know as much about engraving as a modern gun engraver does, because Bolino or very fine engraving was non existent before the Napoleon era except for a few examples in England. The main thing to learn is a knowledge of the art of the periods, mostly rococo. American guns [pre civil war] for the most part were a perversion of the rococo. Truth be known most colonial gun makers probably didn't know what true rococo really looked like. The guns of colonial America were done by amateurs rather than professionals as in Europe and England. Of course this statement is a generality. This has been my field since I was a young teen. I built my first gun in 1952. http://www.jwh-flintlocks.net
The English , French,European and especially the Russian guns far exceeded the American guns in artistic appeal and quality. You just have to study the art of the class and period you wish to engrave. Modern Engraving looks bad on antique guns. It's like a new car at a antique car show.
The English , French,European and especially the Russian guns far exceeded the American guns in artistic appeal and quality. You just have to study the art of the class and period you wish to engrave. Modern Engraving looks bad on antique guns. It's like a new car at a antique car show.
Flintlock, my meager efforts are confined almost exclusively to flintlock guns. I use a gravermach and, while I do as much work OFF of the gun and mounted in the magnablock as possible, unfortunately, that only applies to the lock, butt plate and trigger guard, all of which USUALLY don't get any engraveing. As previously mentioned, it can be dificult to remove an inlay or patchbox for engraveing then reinstall. In my case, it's impossible since all my inlays and most of my patch boxes are pinned. I used to do the parts that are on the rifle while standing but recently made an engraveing table allowing me to do it sitting. I simply put the rifle in a woodworkers vice that clamps to the table edge, the same vice I use for gun-building. Unlike most, I do all of my carving and engraveing on the buttstock while the forestock is still square. basically, I all but finish the gun from the lock back prior to doing anything from the lock forward. This allows me to hold the piece rather aggressively with out fear of damageing the stock. Here's a couple pics of a gun I hope to finish this spring and was engraved as described above. Apart from the three screws in the finial, the patch box of held fast by brass pins and the sterling cheek inlay is held by iron pins. I have never used (or even SEEN one) but I believe that a Lindsay palmgizmo would make engraveing parts ON the gun easier than the Mach as you can move around the piece without being sorta 'tethered' to the foot control.
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jerrywh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Cody does real nice work as you can see. He is probably one of the best muzzle loading gunmakers and engravers around in the longrifle field.
jerrywh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Beautiful work Cody.
i've been blessed by having seen several collections of long guns. many were very nicely engraved, more than a few were, as stated above, done by people who were far better at making the gun. but a common thread strung thruout all these great pieces; not a single one was created with electricity, computers, and hi tech junk. all were created by hand, by honest, hard working, dedicated craftsmen who knew what pride meant. the word showed in every gun i ever looked at ! i considered it an honor to have held these guns, and wondered about the individuals who dedicated their lives to the creation of them.
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