Is something missing?

[Artemiss]

Hi folks,

I ordered a 30 piece attachment set from GRS a few weeks ago, for my MagnaBlock Ball Vice.
To my surprise, none of the pins seem to fit or locate in any of the holes.
I then had a look on the GRS site at the MagnaBlock, and it looks as though I'm missing the two top bits of the vice? Am I correct or am I doing something wrong?

It doesn't look as though you can buy the two bits separately? Or am I wrong?

Cheers, Jo

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Joe

Yes, you are missing the top two peices to the vise.

One has two pins in the bottom and the other has one. The part with one pin allows it to pivot in the hole and helps attach wedge shaped items. A very handy thing to have for gun frames that are slightly wedge shaped. The attachment set pins into these bits.

However all is not lost untill you get those parts. You can mount flatter plates like practice plates etc. onto wooden blocks and use hot glue to hold them. A dirt cheap hot glue gun does the trick nicley.

Roughly mark the area on the block and drip glue onto it and spread it a bit with a wooden spatula or kife. Press your metal onto the block and hold it down hard to squeeze excess glue out. You don't want a big build up of glue underneath as it can act as a spring. You don't want spring in your work, that is for sure!!

Trim the edges and excess away and you are in business.

To release the metal use a cotton bud and apply acetone trying to get it between the wood and metal and after afew applications that will release the glue. It can be a bit of mucking about sometimes but works very well. I've heard that you can put it in the freezer as well but I've never tried that methosd to release the plate. Another, but messier method is to apply heat to the metal with a hair dryer............it works but the glue sticks to the metal and still needs to be taken off with acetone.

If your wooden block is too big for the vise jaws. Then simply screw a smaller bit of wood on the bottom so it can be held in the jaws.

Hope this helps

cheers
Andrew

PS. Thermalock is another great thing to use for awakward shaped items. It works like a clay that you heat, shape etc and can be reused constantley.

 

[Artemiss]

Thanks Andrew,

Yep, that helped heaps, brilliant idea!
Are the additional jaws obtainable, do you know? Otherwise I have a very expensive plastic paper weight! Bit of a waste really!

And what are those jaws actually called?

I'll email GRS after the weekend and see what they think. Just wondered if anyone would know here first.

Right, I'm off to go buy a glue gun :big grin:

Cheers, Jo

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Jo

I don't know if you can buy the top jaws seperatley. GRS will be able to answer that for you. They are a good crowd to deal with and should be able to help you out.

No, you havn't got an expensive paperweight. The magnablock is a heavy beast and better than lifting weights!!

In fact you'll find that with the methods of making small jigs to accommodate your work, the need for the attachment pins etc. diminishes quite a bit and becomes unnessasary. I don't think I've ever used the pins on my vises (a smaller one and a magnablock) because I personally prefer to have my work with a solid backing of wood or metal. It cuts down on the springing action plus stops the vise from sounding like the bells of Notre Dame!!!

You can even make wedge shaped jigs if you like so there really isn't a need to spend more money......unless you would like to of course

Keep your jigs in a box and you'll build up a bit of a collection after a while. Try to use a hard wood to make them out of (as opposed to soft pine) A handsaw and a cordless drill for driving in screws, thermolock (or builders bog) hot glue and can make just about anything.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[pappy]

You should be able to get these parts from Grs. On their site I found their part numbers---003-507 and003-508.
They have had the few pieces I needed for my equipment.
Hope this helps.


Pappy

p.s. The Pieces you are looking for are called pin plates.

 

[richard hall]

JO, you should have a machine shop in your area,take some tracing paper and make an outline of the top of your vise where the pins are located. Your making a template. See if the machine shop has some 2.750 inch stock by .625 thick. They can cut it in half, drill the .250 diameter pin holes in one side and the .375 hole in the other side, using your template. I made a set out of brass so it wouldnt mar up a project. Maybe the folks at G.R.S. might add such an item later on....

 

[KCSteve]

You can see on the nifty new-style holder where those two top jaws should sit. I'm sure GRS will send them right out when they find they somehow got left out.

For practice plates either your vise or the attachement kit should have come with four rather large pins that fit the four holes on the top of the vise jars. The tops of these pins have a cut-out along one side and what's left just barely sticks up above the vise jaw. These are for holding plates. Put in all four pins and set the plate between them in a 'diamond' shape - you want the corners going between the pairs of pins.

This only works for square (or close enough to square) plates but it does work pretty well. As Andrew mentioned you can get some slight issues with the unsupported center section, especially if it's a thin plate.

Looking at the smaller of the two pictures you posted you can see these pins standing in front of the missing top jaws.

Now, one question I just have to ask: did you carefully check all of the packaging? The missing bits (which from the second picture seem like they should have been with the vise) are small and light enough to overlook if they came stuffed into a cavity in some styrofoam or something.

Just in case here's my 'doh!' story so you'll feel better if you just overlooked them. I ordered the sawing plate from the Benchmate collection. It doesn't come in any of the sets and hooks on to the bracket that holds the shelf that holds my vise so now I don't have to work off to the side when I'm doing some sawing.

When I got it, I unpacked it and looked at it and everything looked good, except... well, it appeared they'd sent me the left-handed version!

Felt a bit grumpy for an hour or so, until I realized I was holding it upside down.... :beat up:

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Pardon me for asking this .... is that a genuine GRS Magnablock? It should have been supplied with peg board pieces just like that little picture shows even if bought second hand. I am also aware that the GRS peg board attachment may not fit the vise if it is not the real deal. Knock-offs are not uncommon.


btw Steve ... watch out for those scroll templates out there. They are all missing the templates for left flowing scroll.

 

[John B.]

Hi Jo.

As Christopher say's above, is it a genuine Magnablock?
The reason I ask is your block does not appear to have the GRS inlayed red logo plate.
This is usually on the top of the satin chrome base where the jaws meet.
It could be that this logo was ommited at the request of a private wholesaler but I've never heard of this.
GRS usually ships them with the swing jaws included if purchased directly from them.
If you bought it used you might quiz the seller to see if they forgot to send these parts.
Best regards.

 

[Artemiss]

Thanks guys for all the suggestions and advice.

Christopher & John, I'm pretty sure it's a genuine MagnaBlock. I bought it second hand from a reputable source. Not sure it was sold as MagnaBlock, so it maybe me getting my wires crossed. I think it must be about 20-30 years old though. It did need a new shim, which I bought from GRS and it fitted perfectly. Not sure if this means it's genuine.

It didn't come with any pin boards or pieces.

Steve, packaging not an issue and the vice didn't come from GRS, it wasn't a new one.
Thanks for cheering me up with your 'doh' story though

Richard, good idea! I have just met a fantastic fabricator so I'll ask if it's possible to make the plates.

Pappy, many thanks, I'll send an email to GRS and ask them for prices. I'm not sure about which one I need, so I'll ask that too.

Andrew, I like your ideas regarding wood / glue / thermolock. I'll get an idea of pricing from GRS etc. I managed to get a few pins to fit into a few of the holes, but did find the pins getting in the way a bit, so I'll be trying the hot glue sometime soon I think.

Thanks again for all the info,

Jo

 

[Roger Bleile]

Jo,

I bought a Magnablock from GRS over 30 years ago and it did not have the inlayed piece that John B mentioned. I think the inlayed logo is a more recent addition to the product.

Roger

 

[KCSteve]

Chris

My set was ok - I found the left hand scrolls on the back of the templates.

 

[Kevin P.]

Jo, I use a paint stripping gun hardware stores, and glue sticks available at hobby shops.
The support I use is MDF, I don't know if thats available in the UK. It comes in sheets like plywood but has a very even smooth consistancy. I generally use a 1" x !" wood strip cut to appropriate size and attach to the underside of the MDF. You don't have to open the jaws as wide.
I also use the gun to remove whatever metal and leave the glue residue for the next piece. I use a small spray bottle filled with acetone and paper towel to remove the residue on the metal. If you don't want to use acetone "Goo Gone", a citrus product, also works.
Just a few variations that might be helpful.
I rarely use those pins.
Kevin P.

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Chris

My set was ok - I found the left hand scrolls on the back of the templates.

Haha!! excellent Steve!! :big grin:


Jo,


Attached is a trace of one side of my vise (actual size). The holes are the same on each side. Just print it out and the holes on this tracing should line up with the holes on both sides of yours.



If they do, the GRS peg/pin plates should fit fine. Regardless of whether or not it is bootleg, so long as the holes line up, you'll be ordering something that you know will fit. Subsequently each of the 2 pin accessory pieces will fit as well.

Bootleg vises look exactly like the real thing ... some even have the GRS logo medallion on it too. Many parts fit however the 2 pin stuff in the accessory kit might not fit or line up right in the bootleg pin/peg plates.

Hope that helps,

Chris

-----

As a general "buyer beware" to anyone else thinking of buying a vise, bootleg vises are sold on Ebay and the seller usually hails from a far-Eastern port of rampant, black marketeering. Having a real deal GRS vise is worth purchasing directly from them.

 

[Artemiss]

Chris,
the picture size comes out at about 6inches high, so I'm thinking I need to reduce the printing size somewhat or you have one mother of a vice Can you tell me the size of your vice 'head' and I can scale it when printing - hopefully.

I've just asked the person I bought it from, whether it is a MagnaBlock.
If it isn't then it's my mistake for assuming.

Kevin,
I love the idea of MDF. Yes, it's extremely well known here in the UK - for good and bad reasons obviously.
I have tons of it at home.

When you cut your 1"x1" bits, and stick, say a 2"x2" practice plate on, surely it overhangs a little though? Wouldn't you get a bit of bounce in the metal?

I'm also wondering it it's worth varnishing or sealing the MDF first so that when you apply acetone, it won't penetrate into the MDF and cause it to swell a little!?

Roger,
I think you're right. I'm sure this vice is pretty old looking at it's heritage! Will find out soon I hope.

Cheers guys,

Jo

 

[kcrutche]

Missing parts

Artemiss

I have a GRS positioning vice (much the same as yours).

I also purchased a set of pins with my vice (they sit on my bench still in original shrink wrap).

Even though I have them I have never used the two extensions that you are missing.

I can not see from your picture if you have the four pins that fit the four smaller holes in the top of your vice.

I do use these pins quit a lot to hold practice plates Etc.

You could make them very easily, just purchase some round stock to fit, cut them 1/8th inch longer than the hole is deep, file a flat on the part that extends out of the hole and you will be in business.

The flats will turn in the holes a bit to hold odd shaped objects (something like a oval belt buckle).

You will find them very handy.

I have also used wooden blocks as Andrew has suggested with GRS Thermo-Loc Sticks (hot glue would work just as good and a lot cheaper).

Ken

 

[Artemiss]

I also purchased a set of pins with my vice (they sit on my bench still in original shrink wrap).

Ken, :thumbs up:

I have at least unwrapped mine! :big grin:

From what I'm reading, I don't think I'm missing too much either.
I'm just frustrated at having and expensive paper weight, (meaning the 30 piece attachment set) sat on my desk!
Very nice to look at but not a whole heap of good without the Pin plates.

I haven't got the larger pins either, so I think an email to GRS is required to see costings. As you suggest, these might be useful.

Jo

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Jo

The flat bit on Chris' drawing is 73mm. So that should give you a size to work with.

Make the blocks bigger than the work.

MDF is OK but it crushes easily over time but if you have lots of it then go for it. Use 12mm (or thicker). Go to a local joiner wood place and see if they can give you acces to their scrap bin of hard woods. That's what I did and they were only happy to help out. Just grab whatever they can give you for free!!

Don't varnish unless you want to create more work for yourself. Acetone will melt the varnish. Let it develop a patina of use. It only has to work, not look good. Besides, it gives you that arty worn look!!

Hot glue, thermalock, builders bog, 2 pack epoxies, carpet tape, double sided cellotape etc etc all work. Just remember that you don't want bounce or vibration in your work so avoid thick spongy tapes and large buildups of soft glue.

The thing about all this is to just not sweat it. If it works, do it, if it dosn't, don't. Pins, blocks, jigs, blah blah, blah. You'll find out quick enough what does work and what doesn't. Holding some work can be challenging but by the time you get to that stage you'll be quite relaxed about the whole deal.

Cut the wood, glue the metal down...........and start cutting. That's what counts

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Artemiss]

Cut the wood, glue the metal down...........and start cutting. That's what counts

Concise, and to the point as ever Andrew! :thumbs up:

Will just get on with it then!!! :yes

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Yip, Yip, Yip, Yip, Yip :big grin: