Question: How good is good for firearm engraving?

[alfrisillo]

I recently purchased a Winchester 1897 at an auction and had one of my gunsmith friends disassemble it for cleaning and engraving. The receiver has some pitting that isn't extremely deep but even with stoning and sanding, I have not been able to remove all the pits. So, the question is "How good is good" if I want to engrave, blue and then do some french grey highlighting? Do I need to physically remove all of them or can I soak it in Brownell's rust remover and go from there?
Thanks,
Al

 

[silverchip]

Hey Al,
Sounds a likely candidate for engraving.But my suggestion is to refinish by hand to get the best results.That means no buffing wheels or short cuts because if you just engrave the gun with out the benefit of a nice finish,the engraving won't be up to snuff either. A 600 grit finish is nice.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Al

Only the best is good enough...............whatever you do, do not undersell yourself or your work. Not prepping the surface properly falls into that category!!!! You are about to spend a lot of time engraving this gun and when it's finished all you will see is the pitting and wish to God that you had taken more time prepping the surface.

Unless taking some pitting out changes, or endangers the structural integrity of the firearm then get them all out along with scratches and dings. Either do it yourself or get it done by someone else.

So many times on this forum we see examples of people that put a lot of work on a rough canvas. If they spent a bit of time finishing the canvas the work would have looked better. And please, do not use the excuse "it's only a practice piece" If you use that excuse then you may as well follow it through with a crap engraving and a bad blue and selective grey job to boot. You learn nothing and your work will always be seen as mediocre at best.

This is all part of being an engraver and you must learn to start the work the way you mean to finish.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Beathard]

Andrew is right. It's good enough when you can't do anything extra to fix it.

 

[fegarex]

Al,
As others have said, it must be right. Pits even look worse engraved! There is no easy solution other than sweat and hard work and a 97 is a BIG gun to do. Get out the sanding blocks and band aids.....
Rex

 

[Marrinan]

Filing pits is probably an option when they are so deep that you can not remove them by the time you have restored crisp edges and holes. They can be filed with steel inlay or weld as a general rule. Many engravers run into this while working on none factory-non "in the white" projects. There are examples in a couple of the early engraving books where engraving was actually used to hide pitting by using careful layout. Fred

 

[SamW]

I have filled many a pit too deep or large to polish off with simple soft iron inlay. The only drawback is that with hot dip bluing it might show as a slightly different color under good lighting. Other finishes work well. If the pit is where I plan to cut some lines I will deepen the pit so the inlay is thick enough to withstand light engraving. Obviously you do not want to do this in an area where pressure is a concern such as barrels or cylinders.

 

[Ed Westerly]

I agree, the only good pit is a removed pit!

 

[SamW]

PS...if you have your design made, lay it out and you can see which pits to fill and which ones end up in the background.

 

[alfrisillo]

Thanks guys,
I will just have to convince myself that I am "enjoying" removing those tiny pits....ARGGG!!!

Silverchip, I will take your advise. No buffing wheels or things like that. Looking forward to seeing you
at the Western Heritage Museum in October....

 

[Beathard]

Your not enjoying removing pits, you are enjoying making a beautiful piece of art.

 

[RedfordTrails]

Laser Welders are awesome for removing porosity. If you could find a jeweler nearby with one then they could fill the pits for you. It's as simple as using the right wire, lining it up in cross hairs, and a press of a foot pedal. For a perfect matching wire if you are cutting boarders where there is no pitting then do that first and save the curls. Bring those curls to the jeweler and have them use it as fill wire. You will have a perfect match and after hand finishing off the raised weld you will have a clean surface.

 

[BrianPowley]

The best bet is Sam W's advice---to inlay the pits with soft iron, if you can't sand them out.
If you just soak the receiver in Brownell's Rust remover (it's Phosphoric acid...same as Navel Jelly) and leave the pits, understand that when you get down to the molecular level, the bluing salt molecule is bigger than that microscopic pit and it won't get in there. It will rapidly rust out because you've left bare metal exposed to the elements. It always does.
(That laser welding proceedure sounds pretty interesting too, but I don't have any experience with that.)

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Laser Welders are awesome for removing porosity. If you could find a jeweler nearby with one then they could fill the pits for you. It's as simple as using the right wire, lining it up in cross hairs, and a press of a foot pedal. For a perfect matching wire if you are cutting boarders where there is no pitting then do that first and save the curls. Bring those curls to the jeweler and have them use it as fill wire. You will have a perfect match and after hand finishing off the raised weld you will have a clean surface.

BINGO!! This method is excellent especially for transition period antiques that have a higher nickel content than the earlier models that used mild steel. You also need to be sure to use metal from the same piece as not all parts have the same composition. The laser hardens the steel so it is best to use hard oil stones to bring the filled area flush with the surrounding steel. If you use sand paper, you'll end up with shiny spots that are higher than the surrounding metal. Prior to laser welding, the pits should be cleaned out with a tiny rotary ball bur like those used in the 850. If you don't get all of the rust out, flecks of red will be visible after hot bluing.

Simply burnishing in the pits after cleaning them out works pretty well too ... preferably on the tiny, deep holes that remain. It's amazing how far you can push the steel on those old guns.