Help, please: Hey folks, New to the forum, wish I had the talent, but I don't! Need an engraver.

Marcus Hunt

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Mike, I don't think you made a mistake coming here. You might have heard a few things you don't like but that's the real world and you've also been given some priceless advice.

Perhaps it was how you worded your first post that gave us the impression that this was your gunsmith's first project. On my journeys across the pond I have seen some fantastic custom rifles made in the US. They were normally made by guys who had a passion for building them but if those guys had to make a living from rifle making they'd never have survived because they were probably making around $5 - $10/hour if the work was costed properly. So if you are willing to properly recompense your rifle maker then more power to you!

If you are serious about this project, do your research about who you choose to engrave it. I'm serious - choose the wrong person and you can ruin your rifle and reduce the value to next to zero. I've seen a shotgun that a certain gunmaker sent to Italy to be engraved. It came back with a spinone engraved on the underside and incorporated in the scenes. Nobody in the UK shoots over these dogs so it just didn't sell. I asked them why they didn't just strike out the engraving and re engrave it but they told me that that would leave them with zero or even negative profit so basically it's a right off just sitting in storage.

You might be lucky and find a good, young engraver who is starting out (not many of these though from what I've seen lately) but if you do, pay them what the engraving is worth and forget promises of "exposure" as they are pretty worthless in my experience and it's this which got the experienced engravers riled. You obviously like English scroll as that is what you are requesting but again, be careful because it's a style which can look dreadful if done by someone not experienced in this style. Good luck in your search but I still feel you need an experienced gun engraver who is well practiced in English scroll rather than a novice.
 

Beladran

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mississippi
Mike i'm across the river in Ms and dont mind asking in person why you would want a 500 jef with neck damage lol there is a builder here called DPR (short for dixie percision rifle). This guy is a freak when it comes to working with metal. I am not sure if he started out in robotics or skunk works its one of the two and was a avid gun nut. He tried his luck at building his own rifle and pow next thing you know he is building some of the best 600yd Fclass rifles and 1000 yd benchrest rifles in the world! Now he has ventured into building supressors and I wanna say is some of the most silent on the market right now.

With all that being said if this is your builders introduction to the gun community is this rifle going to be a all out exhibition grade rifle or is this going to be a field grade weapon? If its going to be exhibition grade why not go ahead and get the best engraver money can buy? If its going to be field grade why bother with engraving?... kinda like why would you put a tasco scope on a $5,000 rifle or a nightforce scope on a $100 handi rifle... Get what im trying to say?
james
 

Marcus Hunt

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If its going to be field grade why bother with engraving?... kinda like why would you put a tasco scope on a $5,000 rifle or a nightforce scope on a $100 handi rifle... Get what im trying to say?
james

HUH??? What about all the Purdey's, Holland's, Westley Richards', Rigby's and countless other "engraved" sporting guns and rifles that are actually used in the field? Just because its a top dollar firearm doesn't mean the person buying it doesn't want to use it or want it to be a plain Jane. You might as well say "Huh, field grade, forget wood stick a plastic stock on it!"

There are guns and there are guns; some are just a tool to put a bullet in something but others have soul and are a part of the owners makeup and those owners appreciate that engraving adds another dimension and pride of ownership to their firearm. Just because something is engraved doesn't mean it's "exhibition" grade or can't be used in the field. Frankly, I've never heard anything so daft. I was taught to engrave for the gun to be used. The one time I did do an ultra fine bulino scene (showing off my skills I thought) the customer rejected it and told me to go away and cut it deeper as it was going on an African safari and fine bulino just wasn't going to hack it. Just because a gun or rifle is engraved doesn't mean it's not going to be used.
 
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Bama

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Balkandom, sounds like I may have offended you, good that was my intention. You post sir offends me and every professional engraver on this or any other site. This is not a game we play this is our living that we have invested thousands of dollars in tools and time learning to do it. Don't come on here looking to take advantage of some young pup. This site is for people that are very serious about their work, treat it that way. If you knew **** from Shinola you would not have posted the way you did. As far as meeting face to face sir, all I can say is be careful what you ask for, I have no problem doing so, but when you take a bite of this old Alabama boy you may find him hard to chew.
 

Artemiss

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Mike, you said it yourself... you have confidence in your guys ability. This is because you know him and his work.

That said, you need to do EXACTLY the same when it comes to an engraver.
If you choose a young, relatively inexperienced engraver, you 'could' cost yourself a lot of money.
Also, you won't do your gunsmith friend any favours at all, because poor engraving will detract from a perfectly good gun.

Just do a little research and choose a good, reputable engraver, who has experience with 'gun' engraving! - Oh, and avoid using the word 'exposure'... they don't like that! ;)

My two pence, for what it's worth. Best of luck. :)

Jo
 
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BrianPowley

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Take this "for what it's worth": I don't know Mike but his initial post was somewhat on the side of "baiting". I too recoiled at his remark about wanting "someone new, someone young looking for exposure". (I just had a similar incident where a major gun maker asked me to engrave their gun, but wait until it sold before I got paid for it!)
I also can't fathom why anyone would want a less than recognized engraver for a potential "High Profile" firearm. Maybe Mike didn't think that one through.
As far as why would Mike want a .500 Jeffrey with his known neck injury makes no difference to me. Some people just love owning and collecting guns without ever intending to shoot them.
Personally, I'm kind of curious in seeing what this "new" gunmaker has to offer. I can sort out his/her/their intentions in short order.
 

mitch

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ok, Mike, let's try to get you back on the right track. let's assume you're sincere and your young machinist has some solid gunmaking chops. how about posting a few pics of his work? i'll be the first to admit that in most any field there are some highly skilled, conscientious hobbyists/amateurs that do impeccable work*, maybe he's one of those exceptional exceptions. instead of vague promises of exposure (which we have ALL heard), you should plan on paying a fair price for whatever work you end up getting. fair enough?

best,
mitch

*as an example, some years ago i completely re-plumbed the house my wife & i owned. pulled out every inch of the old occluded galvanized and ran new copper -with an engraver's attention to detail. some months later, we had a guy come to service our furnace. he looked and looked and looked at the shiny new pipes and finally asked me who did it? when i said, "Me.", he said, "You want a job? I've got 20 yr journeymen working for me who aren't this good."
 

Weldon47

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Mitch..., you should have taken the offer!
You know plumbers make more than we do...!

WL

Now everyone.... GO BACK TO WORK
 

Sam

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Mitch: Be sure to wear your pants down low in the back when you're plumbing.
 

Southern Custom

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" I was simply asking from the point that he IS unknown and new, as probably many of the folk here are.."
Mike,
You are right in that many of the engravers here are novices. Some have never touched a graver to steel. Many are coming into their own as artists. The reason they all come here is that they have access to some of the most talented engravers on the planet who stop their work and take the time to mentor them on their journey.
I think the problem stems from your choice of language in your post. Believe me, those of us who have done this for a while have seen it all.
The best advice I could give you would be to listen to carefully to Marcus. He is the ultimate authority here with regard to English scroll. I would suggest asking his direction personally instead of throwing a bone out to whichever dog will bite. There are probably only a handful of engravers here that are capable of cutting what you want correctly. Many of us can cut beautiful clean lines but fine English is something that takes experience to do well. And take note of the quote at the bottom of Marcus' posts. You do get what you pay for and if you want the type of engraving I think you do, you will pay.
You most certainly came to the right place. I think you just triggered some emotion with your wording.
Keep this in mind. Since you don't know what constitutes good English scroll, take advice from someone who does. If you looked at my English scroll, at first glance you would think that you had found your man. I could definitely convince you that you were right. If I cut the gun, you would be a happy customer. It wouldn't be till you showed it to someone like Marcus that you would find out you made a big mistake.
Get the advice of a professional. Email a picture of your chosen engravers work to Marcus and he'll tell you right off if you are going in the right direction.
Good luck with your project.
 

KCSteve

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Southern Custom - I'm in full agreement with you. Marcus's new book is getting a lot of us into English Fine Scroll and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's now able to cut something that I could convince most people was EFS. But even my non-engraver wife can tell it's wrong, just because she's looked at the castings I got with the set, as well as watching along on some parts of the video.

I'm getting to where I'm getting most of the cuts correct, and some parts of the design are showing promise, but overall... Mostly I just need more time, both at my studies and my bench. I expect to be able to do something passable within a month. How long until it's good we will have to wait to see.

I wouldn't dream of working on one of my own guns at this time (well, I do dream of it) and I'll be the first to say that no one should be paying me (or even not paying me) to work on theirs.
 

Balkandom

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Aug 25, 2013
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Here are the pics of his first rifle, all the work-assembly, checkering, inlaying, finishing the wood, and bluing are his. It has a few faults, but he learned from his mistakes and by the time he gets around to making mine, he will have a few more under his belt.






Just for the heck of it, here is the blank my Jeffrey is being built from:




Let me know what you think!

Mike
 

Balkandom

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Aug 25, 2013
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Oh...in response to a few questions:

1.) Why the caliber and my neck injury? I am a masochist I guess, and I'm pretty sure I will not be shooting it a whole lot; it will be like the .458 Lott rifles I have, the joy is in watching other people shoot them.

2.) Marcus hit it right on the nose. Just because it's going to be used does not mean it has to be utilitarian...moot here though, unless Arkansas is invaded by mutated zombie Mastodons. I don't want huge expanses of game scene engraving quilted all over it, I want tasteful accents. Less is more in most cases, in my opinion.
 
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