Help and advice required please

[grahamsimpkin]

Hi Everyone.
I am a new member of the forums and wonder if anyone can advise me please? I make miniatures, and am interested in hand engraving and miniature carving. I would like to buy a microscope but know absolutely nothing about them. I live in the UK and work mostly in wood.
I have been looking at the posts and some of the brilliant work shown here.
I would appreciate any help and advice on types of microscope that you think might be the best for me to get.
I have been looking at this microscope
http://www.gxoptical.com/html/c2-d_boom_arm_stereo_microscop.html

lots of choice for eyepieces but I have to be honest, I dont know what magnification I would need.
I am working with a limited buget so some of the more expensive models will be out of my reach.
Any advice and information that you can give me will be very much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Graham

 

[Tira]

Hello Graham and welcome to the cafe. There are a lot of options with scopes. I have a Meiji that I bought from GRS and it has worked well. Many people go that route with the articulated boom stand which makes adjusting the scope very easy. I have also heard that Zeiss scopes are very good. There has been a lot of banter about certain scopes on ebay, etc. lately, but I don't have any experience with them. You may want to search on "microscopes" on the tool bar - this topic comes up frequently. Good luck with your search. A microscope will certainly help you to see much better than the naked eye. And again, welcome!

 

[Dmitriy Pavlov]

Hi Graham
I can recommend Russian microscope from LOMO, model SF50. It is more cheap then Japanese or German microscope but works good. I used my MBS9 last 25 years. You can fiend it on http://www.microscopes.com/ms-la-mi-sf50.html#
I usually use magnification X8 - X10

 

[monk]

microscopes

meiji, b&l, ao, leica, zeiss, scienscope, all can be a good buy if in good mechanical shape. you want to buy a stereo zoom scope. if possible get it with the .5 auxillary lens. the zoom feature allows magnification from a low of about 3 or 4 x to a high of 45 x or so. the .5 aux. lens allows xtra space under the objective for your hands. if you bid on e-bay, you save a great deal of money, but be sure to deal with vendors that permit returns. be sure the purchase includes a boom mount or an articulating arm. the scope without the mount will get you nowhere fast ! nothing wrong with buying new, but if you can take a bit of time, i'd suggest e-bay. good luck

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Hi Graham, welcome to The Cafe.

Ok, a few years back I decided to go the microscope route for health reasons and I must admit it took me many months of research before I took the plunge. Like you, I didn't want to spend heaps of money if I could help it and basically I settled on getting a scope from GX Optical because back then the $/£ ratio meant I wouldn't necessarily save a lot importing a scope from the USA after import duties were paid. Then one day I checked out eBay and there was the exact scope I was looking for and the strange thing was that a) it was described as 'new' and b) it came from the same town as GX Optical are located in. 'Hmmm, very strange,' I thought, this has got to be too much of a coincidence. Anyway, I asked my questions and found out the vendor was GX Optical and ended up getting the whole set up (minus light, which incidentally must also be taken into consideration or you won't see a thing) for £260!!!! That included a fully articulating stand too. Now, when I asked the company why they sold it so cheap (less than half their normal retail) they said it was because of over stock and having to shift some models. But, what I reckon was that it was a 'return' because the box still had the previous delivery address which was a dental lab in Scotland. Still, it was an absolute bargain and the people at GX Optical are very nice to do business with. Nowadays though, with the strong £ to $ it may be worth importing one and you can probably get a Meiji from the USA at not much more than a GX Optical one. I don't know about the secondhand route but I'd want to see it first or have some guarantee that the optics are perfect before parting with my cash. Just my personal point of view.

However, GX Optical are Chinese made scopes and whilst there is nothing intrinsically wrong with this, they are not a patch on the Meiji. The Meiji that I traded up to has much brighter optics and is an all round better microscope and of that there is no doubt. But you have to make a choice; are you a hobbyist or a professional? As a hobbyist there is no reason not to go the Chinese scope route and you'll probably be very happy. But if you are a professional I'd definitely say go the Meiji route. I think it's the best scope around for the money. Yes, Leica's and Zeiss' are undoubtedly much better scopes but you are going to pay BIG bucks for the privelege.

Regarding 'needs' for an engraver's microscope. Firstly, it needs to have an adequate working distance and this is normally between 6 and 10 inches. This is so you can get your hands and tools underneath the scope. It is normally achieved by halving the microscope's power. What you need for this is a 0.5 Barlow reducing lens and instead of a range of x7 - x45 say you've now go a range of x3.5 - x20 which is more than adequate and unless you're getting spinters out of fingers you'll never need the upper range of magnification. As for eyepieces, get X10 SWF ones as they increase your field of view which you will find is exceedingly small.

I mentioned lighting before. Don't make the mistake I did and go for an 8 watt ring light. Go for 15 watts and it's definitely worth the extra cost. As you increase magnification the scope 'eats' light. There are several lighting options but I definitely think for engraving the flourescent ring light is best. LEDs tend to cause too much reflected glare.

Also, you'll have to think about how you will hold your work under the microscope and how the vise will be positioned. You have to have a way of bringing the work back into the field of view as you turn the vise because you only have around a 2 inch field to play with. For this you need either a positioning vise or a turntable on which to place a normal ball vice.

Anyway, there is much to think about and I hope this is of help to you. Good luck.

 

[Sam]

Welcome to the Cafe, Graham. Remember that you're going to be spending countless hours looking through your microscope, and I strongly encourage you to get a scope that's bright and stays in focus. While some of the Chinese scopes are tempting price-wise, in a side-by-side comparison with a Meiji, the ones I tested were sub par at best. There are some things you can cut corners on and save money, but I'm of the opinion that microscopes are not one of them unless you can carefully evaluate and compare different models side by side.

Cheers / Sam

 

[beegee]

I bought an American Optical stereo zoom on ebay for my bee business. I was planning to do artificial insemination of honey bee queens(seriously), which requires a pretty good scope and steady hands. I think I paid less than $200 for it and it is quite adequate for engraving, except that I need to get or build a boom stand. It is a .7 to 4.2 stereo zoom with 15x wide field eyepieces. It has an external powered light source that mounts in the housing.

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Ok, let's do some maths;

GX Optical


Scope
£382

Stand (articulating)
£350

Eyepieces
£44

Barlow lens
£41

total
£817

MIEJI (from GRS)

Scope (all lenses included)
$1265

Stand (Acrobat)
$469

total
$1734

Now, at over $2 to the £ you can see that you'll pay approximately the same price! You'll have to add shipping and allow around 20% (often less) in duties but for what adds up to only a couple of hundred quid more you'll have a top quality scope. A light for either is going to cost around £90 too.

 

[grahamsimpkin]

Thanks very much everyone for your welcome and for all the information/advice that you have given me. Its given me loads to think about. I will look at all the microscopes that you have mentioned and hopefully get hold of one soon.
I am not an engraver but as I mentioned, I make miniatures, furniture, miniature turnings etc and I hope to teach myself to carve in miniature. Having looked at the superb engraving work shown here I am tempted to jump in and have a go myself when I get a microscope.
Thanks again for the help.
Graham

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Graham

I'd have to concur with Marcus and Sam.

Buy the very best you can.............when your eyes begin to water, you know you've paid just about the right amount.

I brought a microscope and when i first got it I thought it was fantastic as it allowed me to see the work. As I got used to it I started noticing a few things that could have been better. Now I wish I just bit the bullet and brought a really good one from the start. I can see that I'm going to have to get a decent one.

With a good one you'll always get most of your money back.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[grahamsimpkin]

Hi Graham, welcome to The Cafe.

Ok, a few years back I decided to go the microscope route for health reasons and I must admit it took me many months of research before I took the plunge. Like you, I didn't want to spend heaps of money if I could help it and basically I settled on getting a scope from GX Optical because back then the $/£ ratio meant I wouldn't necessarily save a lot importing a scope from the USA after import duties were paid. Then one day I checked out eBay and there was the exact scope I was looking for and the strange thing was that a) it was described as 'new' and b) it came from the same town as GX Optical are located in. 'Hmmm, very strange,' I thought, this has got to be too much of a coincidence. Anyway, I asked my questions and found out the vendor was GX Optical and ended up getting the whole set up (minus light, which incidentally must also be taken into consideration or you won't see a thing) for £260!!!! That included a fully articulating stand too. Now, when I asked the company why they sold it so cheap (less than half their normal retail) they said it was because of over stock and having to shift some models. But, what I reckon was that it was a 'return' because the box still had the previous delivery address which was a dental lab in Scotland. Still, it was an absolute bargain and the people at GX Optical are very nice to do business with. Nowadays though, with the strong £ to $ it may be worth importing one and you can probably get a Meiji from the USA at not much more than a GX Optical one. I don't know about the secondhand route but I'd want to see it first or have some guarantee that the optics are perfect before parting with my cash. Just my personal point of view.

However, GX Optical are Chinese made scopes and whilst there is nothing intrinsically wrong with this, they are not a patch on the Meiji. The Meiji that I traded up to has much brighter optics and is an all round better microscope and of that there is no doubt. But you have to make a choice; are you a hobbyist or a professional? As a hobbyist there is no reason not to go the Chinese scope route and you'll probably be very happy. But if you are a professional I'd definitely say go the Meiji route. I think it's the best scope around for the money. Yes, Leica's and Zeiss' are undoubtedly much better scopes but you are going to pay BIG bucks for the privelege.

Regarding 'needs' for an engraver's microscope. Firstly, it needs to have an adequate working distance and this is normally between 6 and 10 inches. This is so you can get your hands and tools underneath the scope. It is normally achieved by halving the microscope's power. What you need for this is a 0.5 Barlow reducing lens and instead of a range of x7 - x45 say you've now go a range of x3.5 - x20 which is more than adequate and unless you're getting spinters out of fingers you'll never need the upper range of magnification. As for eyepieces, get X10 SWF ones as they increase your field of view which you will find is exceedingly small.

I mentioned lighting before. Don't make the mistake I did and go for an 8 watt ring light. Go for 15 watts and it's definitely worth the extra cost. As you increase magnification the scope 'eats' light. There are several lighting options but I definitely think for engraving the flourescent ring light is best. LEDs tend to cause too much reflected glare.

Also, you'll have to think about how you will hold your work under the microscope and how the vise will be positioned. You have to have a way of bringing the work back into the field of view as you turn the vise because you only have around a 2 inch field to play with. For this you need either a positioning vise or a turntable on which to place a normal ball vice.

Anyway, there is much to think about and I hope this is of help to you. Good luck.

HI Marcus.
Thanks very much for all the information, it's a great help. I can now look at the different microscopes with some idea of what all the figures/information means. I have never used or even looked through one of these microscopes so it was a bit daunting to think of spending quite a lot of money based on guesswork.
Are these type of microscopes ok for use while wearing glasses, or does this cause any problems? I know that some binoculars are a bit tricky to use when you're wearing glasses.
Thanks again for your help, I will check out all the microscopes and probably have a load more questions ( hope you dont mind )
regards.
graham

 

[Sam]

Are these type of microscopes ok for use while wearing glasses, or does this cause any problems? I know that some binoculars are a bit tricky to use when you're wearing glasses.
graham

Graham: Some people prefer to wear glasses and some not. You'll have to see which way works for you.

GRS makes a special pair of eyepieces for eyeglass wearers that fit the Meiji scope. They have protective rubber O-rings on them to protect your glasses from getting scratched.