Gun shipping question

[Ray Cover]

Ok guys there has been a huge confusion on the shipping of firearms that I have come up against.

I won't bore you with all the details but I am in a project that has more than one FFL holder involved in it and there is some discrepancy as to the legal shipping of firearms.

The issue is with shipping handguns through the US mail.

Because of the way (F14) in the questions and answers section of the federal manual is written it has always been my understanding that a handgun can only be shipped via USPS if it is a police officers or guards gun and then it has to be THE gun they carry while on duty. That is also the way the ATF field officer I called understood it.

I have been told by the other FFL holder that if the gun is going from one FFL holder to another FFL holder it can also be shipped via USPS. Is this correct?

With Fed-Ex and UPS having their own "Company policies" that are often more restrictive than federal law it would be nice to have a third option.

Can some of you guys out there clear this up for me?

Ray

 

[SamW]

Postal regs require handguns be shipped FFL holder to FFL holder. I have shipped that way using registered mail for years. I am not sure but believe you will have to use registered mail. UPS and FedX are more hassle than I care to deal with!! when shipping handguns.

TOS

PS...I only ship UPS with long guns when the owner requires I do so. Registered mail has worked for me for 30 years now.

 

[Ray Cover]

Thanks for that Sam,

The government really needs to come out with an English version of their regs book and categorize things in a little easier to understand way. The LSS (lawyers secret society) system they use now makes it hard to find and understand things.

Ray

 

[pappy]

Well said, Ray. Laws should be written so that those of us who have a high scool diploma can understand them. No more LSS!!!

 

[Ozgraver]

You think you've got problems shipping guns! I wanted to build a non-firing (I'm not a shooter) flintlock pistol kit just for the experience of building and ageing it. Seemingly it's virtually impossible for me to import any part of a gun into Australia - even importing a wooden stock without a permit is an offence!

To import any of the pistol parts into Australia I would first have to join an authorised pistol shooting club (at great expense), then wait for a minimum of six months before I could apply for a gun permit. I'd then have to keep a clean record for two years (which in itself could pose a problem ), during which time I would have to attend and compete in at least ten full competitions per year per classification of pistol and only then could I apply for a Class 2 Collector's Permit (at $235, it's the cheapest non-shooting option).

Assuming I was successful in obtaining my permit, I would then have to approach a registered gunsmith to import the parts for me. The gunsmith is then required to examine the parts (he has the power of approval) and if he found them 'inappropriate' I'd have to forfeit the whole lot!

If The kit was approved, then I would have to pay for the gunsmith to drill the vent hole in the barrel even though I don't want to fire the gun! I was informed this is in case someone else gets hold of the gun and decides to drill the vent hole (badly) to make it usuable.

What a ridiculous amount of faff just for a fake antique ornament!

 

[pilkguns]

Ray, FWIW, Sam is correct, handguns can be sent via Registered Mail FFL to FFL, and is the safest, cheapest when including insurance, and the slowest form of shipment.

 

[Ray Cover]

Thanks I am really glad to know that.

UPS and Fed-ex both seem to have their own internal rules that makes shipping a gun through them kinda expensive if it is insured for any serious amount.

Ray

 

[Andrew Biggs]

OK I'm going to step into this one.

I can see this discussion going really "pear shaped" if we're not careful.

This forum is about engraving and we give a fair amount of lattitude to related matters. After all it's kind of nice to discuss other things as well.

But..........................

The whole gun debate can get really out of hand and bringing God into it just pours petrol on the fire. We all have our differing points of view and opinions on the subject and some of them can be quite passionate. Nothing wrong with that except this is not the venue to do it in.

There are also a lot of different countries and cultures represented on this forum and each country has it's own particular gun laws and ways of dealing with things. If you wish to comment about that and vent your opinions on the subject then please do so on another forum. Not this one!!!!

So........ with that in mind I believe this thread started with Ray's question about posting guns in the USA. So lets stick to that please.


Thanks for that

Andrew

 

[Dulltool]

Andrew,
Thanks for stepping in on this one.

 

[Gator]

Ray,
I've heard that the USPS is faster and safer then you think when shipping guns. They only ship them Priority Mail.
Also if the gun is stolen from the USPS, the FBI usually gets involved and is assigned to the case. With FedEx, this isn't done. This is because the theft/loss involves federal government workers.
The insurance is better for these items too, no junk about "art" if you have pictures of the item and listed the item as engraved with an appropriate value for insurance.
As I understand it, that knife you had stolen would have been handled differently with USPS.
They may be a little slower, but it can be worth it.

Best of luck,
Gator

 

[SamW]

When sent registered mail, the package is signed for each time it changes hands, one reason it takes a little longer. I have found over the years that about 5 workdays is normal for delivery, tho sometimes it is a day or so longer or shorter. I have had packages arrive in 2 days to nearby addresses. You can insure to $25,000.00 but I think there is a way to insure for much more. Diamonds are often shipped registered mail I am told. Also, so you don't get sent home to rewrap the box as I did in 1978 when I first tried to mail registered...wrap the box in brown paper and seal all seams with brown reenforced paper tape. If in doubt what to use, ask your local postal clerk. Regards, TOS

 

[Tira]

Cafe Members,

This political/religious/moral, etc. debate is not what Mr. Cover asked about. He asked about shipping guns. Andrew has already asked everyone to keep to that.

These topics seems to bring out the "fight" in people who passionately hold one view or another. Hold whatever view(s) you would like. The forum is not the place to have certain discussions - kind of like a dinner party where religion, politics, and sex should not be discussed.

 

[Yves Halliburton]

Fyi

Everyone, remember one of the big misunderstandings that can happen when using multipile dealers in a project is the log books. Remember to fill out your log books correctly. Incorrectly filled out log books is the ATF's biggest accourance during audits and can make an easy audit go bad. I use 2 log books, The "Disposition Book" for sales and the "Repair Book" for gunsmithing/engraving. Just remember that if you receive a firearm in for engraving through the "Repair Book" and then send it out you need to log from and to in the "Disposition Book" everytime it goes out. If you are just using the "Disposition Book" you need to log it out and then back in. It is a common mistake not to log the additional vendors when doing a job and can lead to "a not to fun time with the ATF".

 

[BJREBUCK]

Here In The Peoples Republik Of Kalifornia A Special Form (don't Remember The #) Is
Required To Be On File With The Post Office Where The Shipment Originates. I Assume Since The P.o. Is Federal, It's A Requirement Everywhere (for Handguns Only). It Shows That You Are An Ffl Holder And Id And A Copy Of Your Ffl Is Attached. It Took Some Doing Since The People In
The P.o. Weren't Even Aware Of It. Finally Found A Supervisor Who Knew About It. Best To Check Into This Where You Are. There's Enough Headaches In This Business Already. And If Something Where To Go Missing You Can Bet The Investigators Will Look Into All Aspects.

 

[jlseymour]

Start a new thread and ya'll can input allot of info about guns and gun shipping...
Info about the rules the Goverment System has in place...
Jerry

 

[Gator]

Sorry...
Gator

 

[Sam]

I must say that I'm rather disappointed to see that our moderators were forced to delete a dozen posts in this thread while I was away on a trip. I've read each one and they certainly needed deleting.

Please don't let this happen again.

Sam