Question: Graver size

[scott99]

Hi, this might seem basic, but I am doing my first ring and find I am having problems with tiny curves on inside leaves and stems. My smallest graver as an example has a face a little less than .062 (1/16) wide.I have shortened my heels to just a tiny length (less than .030 wide),with a standard 15 degree heel. I also have made gravers with a parallel heel about .020 wide.

Now this is what I see as small and would bet to some they are huge.

The question is how big or oversize am I? I have seem mico gravers on the Forum made from old burrs and they are of course smaller than any I have produced.

I suppose what I would really like to know from people that do very small work is how small do you guys get with gravers, what is still a usable size.

Any information on "tiny" would be appreciated, before I start making micro tools I would like to know where I am really going with the job. Thankyou for any input.

scott99

 

[GTJC460]

On really tight small radius turns you will get some heel drag using a normal heel. It's just a fact of life. One thing that helps is to raise your wrist as you make these cuts.

The other thing is the Lindsay parallel heel. This geometry is very helpful on these cuts. I would also assume that the new GRS easy graver sharpening system would be equally as good.

I do some pretty small engraving on jewelry and use the Lindsay 116' universal point for almost everything now. Cant really say I ever have heel drag issues... My heels arent micro by any means, maybe .1-.15mm. I used a .7mm diameter drill bit to compare. Basically looking at the graver with the naked eye, it just enough heel to create a flash of bright along the edge.

Could you post a picture of the problem you have with your engraving?

 

[scott99]

Hi, can't do any pic right now but heel drag is probably part if not all of my problem.My heel size compared to what you use seems comparable. How wide a graver are you making, it may be that my tools are simply too big?

Thanks scott99.

 

[GTJC460]

I use from super tiny to full width. I will post a picture of what most my gravers look like.

How long have you been engraving? Sometimes newer engravers tend to cut too deep for the tool they are using. Basically your graver is designed to really only cut as deep as the length of your heel. Many times the new engraver tries to push the graver deeper than it should really cut

When I engrave Im really not making much if any downward pressure. I let the tool do the work and I'm merely guiding it along, slightly changing the angle of attack and roll to the side.

 

[Red Green]

The width of the face has no bearing on heel drag. I cut deeper than my heel width without drag using a parallel heel. Your angle of attack may be the problem, as Bert said if you're pushing down with any real force you may be rocking back on the heel. Cutting at a low angle will cause not heel drag but bottom drag. If you push down with your finger on top of the graver it is very likely you are rocking back on the heel, try cutting at a higher angle. Your graver should not dive into the work or lift out of the cut when you are at the proper angle, you should be able to easily guide the graver in any direction. You may want to change your grip, holding the graver with the thumb forward on the side of the graver. Heels are not required, you can cut very nicely without them try using Phil Coggan's point.

Bob

 

[Andrew Biggs]

The trick with cutting small is to keep your heel very small and watch your depth. Raising the graver also helps.

As to face size. Try to keep it in proportion to your work as it is easier to see what you are doing

Cheers
Andrew

 

[monk]

for normal engraving i use normal tools. when i began doing hobo nickels ( i don't consider hobo work normal)
i use some very tiny tools. i have made a rather nice flat from a dental drill. the width, by actual measurement, is .2 mm wide ! making such tools (for me) is the exact same way normal gravers are treated. only deal-- way less pressure is needed to fashion such gems. at least for me, the power hone is
too difficult to use on such tools.
creating these is easy. the "fg" dental drills are .062" or close. simply solder the drill into a length of 3/32" square brass tubing. insert an .062" steel, copper, or brass wire in the backside. this prevents crushing of the brass tube when put into a handpiece. look in the tips section, john baraclaugh shows how this is done. although he used .062" drill rod. same procudure, though. the square tube allows for exact re-sharpening.

 

[scott99]

Hi,again it was suggested I try "Phil Coggan's point", I could not find information on this point on the Forum. Anybody have help on this point design?

thanks scott99

 

[Red Green]

Well, first be forewarned using a graver without a heel requires you to control it at all times. Phil's geometry is very well behaved and easy to control but it does everything you tell it to. Heels make maintaining even controlled cuts much easier, even if misused. Phil could give you the angles if he knows them (he may 'just do it') or Lindsay has Phil's template.

Bob

 

[Scottyd]

Monk,
I used to use dental bits in 3/32" brass tubing but I found them to be fragile with my ham-handed technique. I use 1/16" m42 and carbide drill blanks from W T Hutchinson. Dave London gave me a tip and I use superglue instead of soldering. The heat from a cigarette lighter breaks the superglue bond and the dental bit can be replaced. I engrave the graver material(m42 etc) and angle (90, 105, etc) on the brass tubing which helps when you have to resharpen. The 1/16" drill blank sharpens up quickly as you don't have to remove much material to make a tiny graver (less than 1mm). I got tired of hogging down a 3/32" graver.
Scott

 

[scott99]

Thank you all very much.

scott99

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Scott

You asked for information about the "Coggan Point"...........it is basically what we would call (rightly or wrongly) a bulino style graver.

To intially shape the graver, on the underside (belly) of the graver make a long taper so that the point ends up near the top of the graver. Roughly it is 45 degrees rotation with a 7 degree lift. Give or take a few degrees. Face about 45 to 55 degrees. This will give you a 90 degree square graver. None of the angles are critical so if you want it slightly wider or thinner then just adjust the angles accordingly.

The long taper effectively gives you clearance above the work. When using keep your hand lower than normal otherwise the graver wants to dive into the work. When resharpening you only need to grind the face on a stone or power hone.

It's an excellent graver to have in your bag of tricks

Cheers
Andrew