Question: Gold (Copper) Inlay question?

[Artemiss]

Hi folks,

I'm looking at giving inlaying a try, and have a few questions, if you don't mind.

- Rather than gold, would it be ok to practice using copper from electrical cables?

- I measured the width of the copper wire I have here, and it's around 0.18mm. Is this too small to be practical? (I could probably find other sizes if more suitable.)

- What gauge of wire is a 'general' size to use?

- As and when I do start playing with gold, what equipment do I need? I read things about 'draw plates'?

Many thanks in advance, for any assistance.

Jo

 

[mrthe]

Hi Jo i do practices with copper from electrical cables,but will be better annealing it before,because in this way the copper will be more soft and in some cable the copper is protect with a very thin layer of plastic,for the gauge you can make your owns using a draw plate it depend the gauge that you need following your design or the size of your cut,two month ago i have buy in ebay UK (yes i buy my jewelery tools in UK hehe) a draw plate very cheap (4 pounds or less) that allow you make sizes from 1 mm to 0,1 work well for copper,the best ones draw plates are the ones that have the holes in tungsten,i use it for my jewellery but are more more expensive nad heare i haven`t find one with holes littles than more of 0,5 mm.

P.S.
The gauge that you have is good for practices i use one similar and work well

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Jo, my first try on inlay, I used copper, I have several draw plates, annealed the copper wire and used them till it was the right size for inlay.
Annealed them before starting inlay. woks great. Sure you will need a draw plate when inlaying gold wire.

arnaud

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Jo

For practice purposes I wouldn't worry about draw plates at this stage. Just work with the size copper that you have. If you wish to use a slightly thicker wire you will find that a hobby electrical shop will sell it.

I would start out with something a bit thicker than 0.18mm. Probably something around 0.5mm..................it means that you have something a bit more grunty to work with and hang onto plus it is a little more forgiving. Once you have the actual technique/process correct................ then go down to whatever size you want.

As others have mentioned, with copper, anneal often.

I have draw plates but rarely use them. I tend to buy my wire in about 3 sizes and use them. The thinner diameters of gold are reasonably cheap. Once you start getting to 0.5mm then you really start ramping the cost up. A very useful size to have is 0.3mm and 0.20mm and a small amount of 0.5mm

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Artemiss]

Hey guys,

Thanks so much for the replies. Exactly what I was looking for!

Paolo, there is a Tungsten drawplate on ebay uk at the moment... but it is £128!

Andrew, thanks for that. I like the idea of buying the wire in the required size.
'Anneal often'? I'm afraid, I know nothing of this black art! You need to anneal more than once?

NEXT... learning to anneal!

Jo

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Jo , annealing is just piece of cake

arnaud

 

[Artemiss]

Arnaud... YouTube is my friend?

 

[Artemiss]

Ooo... just thought of something else.

'Carrots'? Where gold is concerned, is a certain ct preferred over another?
I'm nowhere near looking to buy gold at the moment, I'm just curious.

Also, does anyone know if welding wire (mig) is solid copper?

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Jo, there is a sticky one on Chris forum about annealing? You have to sing in to be able to read it, but its free.

arnaud

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Jo

Annealing is simple enough. Just heat till red hot and let it cool naturally. With wire that is only a few seconds. Depending on the copper, if it is pure or not, it can work harden as you hit it to get it into the cavity. Just anneal the length that you will use before you pound it into the groove. And wipe off any black residue. I just use a small hobby propane torch that is about $20. Or you can use a cigarette lighter or kero lamp but they tend to leave black soot on the surface..........be careful of thin wire because you can melt it very easy. For thinner wire hold it on a brick or soldering pad type thing. Also hold the wire with pliers/tweezers. The wire conducts heat real easy and you can burn your fingers.

Carat gold..............use 24k where you can because it is pure, very soft and a lot more forgiving. You can use other carats and they will be harder (and work harden) so your channels and undercuts have to be far more precise. The carat gold you want to use depends on the work. If it's to be handled a lot then 22k is probably a good deal. Buy a small length 22k yellow gold and you will notice a big difference between 24k and 22k

Get stuck into it and you'll soon get the hang of it. Nothing like trial and error and a few choice Anglo Saxon words to learn the technique. You'll pull your hair out on the first few goes at it but once you get the confidence and technique you'll be fine. It's fiddly work so be patient. It's a good idea on your first few goes at it to make damn sure the gold is actually set in the channel and won't fall out.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[monk]

owning & using welding machines, i'll kick in here. there's basically 2 types of wire you may want-- flux cored-- this allows welding without using the inert shielding gas. the solid wire is copper-coated steel. the copper coating prevents rust formation. the solid wire requires the use of shielding gas.
there's a difference in the weld result. flux- cored produces a weaker weld with lots of spatter. the beads aren't good looking, either. the gas-shielded solid wire gives a much cleaner bead with no spatter, and looks far better than the other technique.
i've found that working with copper for inlay is easy if you cut a proper channel to begin with.. anneal the wire, and use as little hammer-punching that will seat the copper quickly. most of the copper inlay i've done- such as on hobos- you don't want to heat the copper once it has started into its' channel, or there's a risk of damaging the object.

 

[rayf24]

Jo mig wire is only a copper coat to stop it rusting too quick it is steel under the plating
I do have some alum mig wire I will get some out for when we meet
ray

 

[Artemiss]

Well... did I have fun today!?!

Yep, I had my first go at inlaying copper. And yes, it was fun!
And, I didn't cock-up either, which is a real bonus.

I found some 0.30 electrical wire that worked really well.
Even managed some of that 'black magic annealing' - it reeeeeally doesn't take long, does it!!!
Sorry Andrew, despite telling me to hold the wire with pliers... well, you get the idea! (ouch)
I'll be sure to use pliers in future, promise! There were a few choice Anglo Saxon words used!

I have to say a big thanks to Roland Baptistes book & DVD. It's very very good.
I made a version of the tools he uses for inlaying, which worked brilliantly. And his explanation on how to inlay was very easy to understand. Thoroughly recommended.

Thank you all so much for your helpful suggestions, I really appreciate it.

Jo

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Good deal Jo. It's fun isn't it and the Anglo Saxon words definatley help

When you buy the gold wire further down the track make sure you buy some lower carat as well. Just a small piece. Then you will start seeing the difference between the karats. 24k gold can lure you into a false sense of security!!!

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Artemiss]

Thanks for the tip Andrew.

Just thought of another question though...

When I'd finished inlaying, I needed to remove the excess and smooth the finish.
Having no alternative, I used fine (600 & 2500gt) wet & dry paper. I'm fairly sure I read somewhere, NOT to do this, but it was my only option at the time, and it was just a messy practice plate.

I ended up with a very polished area around the copper, which wasn't great.

Am I right in thinking I need ceramic sticks to achieve the desired affect?

Thanks again,

Jo

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Jo

The polished areas around the copper means that you didn't sand the area enough. The polished areas may be raised metal. The whole thing should be smooth with absolutely no transition marks from metal to copper.

Yes, stones are good and are well worth having. Ceramic stones are very nice to use but you will need a few grits................But to be honest I use wet n dry paper and oil as a lubricant. But you need to wrap the paper around a small flat stone so it is backed by a hard flat surface. That way you don't start hollowing out the copper/gold. I have a very small triangular Arkansas stone for this. Change the wet'n dry often as it wears out. I generally finish with 1200.

If you go the way of stones............Let the stone do the cutting. Don't force it or you can end up scratching the surface and making more work for yourself. Clean the stone often with a tissue to get the swarf off and use some lubrication.

To get a WOW satin finish on the gold/copper .............you can give it a few wipes with the green 3M polishing paper after all sanding/stoning etc.

As usual..........this is the way I do it and not to be taken as the definative way of it

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Dave London]

Jo
Check the search function for John B,s diving board method of anealing works great and no melted wire i.e. Gold. Or hot fingers

 

[diandwill]

The need to use gold, other than 24K which is pure, is two-fold. One is cost, less gold = less money, the other is color. 24K is yellow, any other color is less than 24K, but adds a great pallette to inlay. Also, there are many words that are NOT anglo-saxon that are effective. Being in a primarily English speaking country, French and German are very useful. We have a lot of Spanish speaking Hispanics, so I don't use those, also a lot of Russians, but I don't know those. Use some creativity and expand your vocabulary. It feels the same, and is just as expressive.

 

[monk]

initially, if the copper sticks out too much, you can level it out a bit using a flat graver that's wide enough. just don't dig into the surface around the copper.

 

[Artemiss]

I think part of my problem was using my finger as the backing to the wet n dry.
I've shined the whole area around the inlay.

On the basis that stones are good to have anyway, I've ordered a few from Chris. (very good price)

Andrew, 'Green 3M polishing paper'? Is that the product name? Does it have a grit number?

diandwill, thanks for the tip on colour. I didn't think about that side of things.
Maybe for my birthday I'll ask for a pack of 'swear-word of the day' toilet tissue.
Someone's bound to have invented a multilanguage one, I'm sure!

My thanks again to all, for the help.

Jo